motion.

Mr. S. Thornton said, he had rather hear the opinion of others than deliver his own, upon a subject in which his personal character was concerned. But as allusion had been made to those with whom he acted, he should make a few observations. He then took some notice of the share which the Liverpool, Hull, Bristol, and other banks had in creating the drain upon the Bank of England, some time previous to the order in council. It was not so easy a matter to import bullion to advantage into this country, as some gentlemen seemed to imagine. The coinage of this country took bullion at a fixed price, consequently, when bullion was very high the coinage itself was melted down. Bullion was at the time the hon. baronet alluded to, in Hamburgh at 41. 4s. an ounce, and the coinage here at about 3l. 17s. 6d. Bullion then might have been imported, but it would only have staid with us until it could have been reshipped and exported, for the purpose of being sold to us again. The purchase of bullion was matter of great nicety, and not to be carried on without judgment and care. This country was, for its finances and commercial character, the envy of the rest of the globe. We had seen Holland and other commercial countries, rise in prosperity under the management of but one bank. In Scotland there were certainly two, but no argument could be drawn from this, for even they had much dependence on the Bank of England.

The Solicitor General said, that much of the hon. baronet's argument had been founded on the clause in the act which served as a check on the Bank; but there was a great difference between continuing that clause, and erecting a new Bank. The question then was this, whether it was most easy to restore credit to its former state by creating a new bank, or to give to the present all the functions of which it was capable? The Bank was adequate to the purposes for which it was

from the measure, but, on the contrary, much mischief, for a new Bank would tend to create doubts about the present Bank. The hon. baronet had said that it wanted an increase of exertion, which rival bank would give it. This he took to be a very mistaken notion; for, so far from increasing, it would damp and clog its exertions, by rivalling it in the procur ing of specie; as the persons concerned in a new Bank must at the very outset provide specie to open with, and this hoarding of dead cash in another coffer would prevent the Bank from resuming its former functions.

Mr. Sheridan said, he had always desired to see public credit re-established in the person of the Bank, and therefore he had hitherto opposed the ideas of the worthy baronet upon that subject. But he did not find, that any idea was, entertained that the Bank was to resume its payments in cash. He differed from the worthy baronet as to the first duty of the Bank, That hon. member looked upon the Bank as having been instituted for the purpose chiefly of accommodating government. He wanted a public bank that would proceed on the narrow ground of looking to itself, and to itself only, and he was persuaded that until that was the case there would be no such thing in this country as a paper circulation founded upon real credit. If the Bank did not open on the 24th of June, he saw no reason for hoping that they would open at all. It was a farce to call that a bank which was never to give for paper any thing but paper. It was admitted that the Bank had, with great facility, assisted government from time to time. Now if the Bank was to be considered as bound to continue that as sistance, the distresses of the government must continue to be the distresses of the Bank. But he maintained that this was a practice which was against the general principle on which the Bank ought to act, and on which alone it ought to be sup ported. The Bank should say this, "We know nothing of the distresses of government; we look to the notes which we have issued, and we are determined to pay them when they become due." When we had an issue of paper, it was ridiculous to think of confidence in that paper upon any principle but that of its being paid when it became due. If the Bank was allowed to use any discretion in relieving the necessities of government in prefer

ence to paying the demands of individuals apon themselves, it could never have the Confidence of the public, and fatal inconvenience would soon arise; whereas, by separating the Bank from the government, this truth would soon appear-that it was owing to the war that all these difficulties had arisen. By taking it to be the duty of the Bank to assist government in all its distresses, the Bank could never be reasonably expected to open its payments in specie to its creditors; it must give paper for paper for ever; so that the Bank would have five per cent for giving its opinion upon the solvency of government; and supposing them to owe ten millions upon their present paper, they would, in the course of fourteen years, by the operation of compound interest, realize to themselves the whole of that property. This was in reality giving nothing to the public creditor; and, therefore, unless he heard that the Bank was to pay in cash at some given time, he should be for opening another bank. With regard to the notes of the Bank, he did not expect them to be at a discount, even although the Bank should not pay in specie; for now that we should require annually the sum of 26 millions in the collection of taxes, that would keep them at par, while they were received in payment at the exchequer; for any man receiving a large sum in Bank notes might readily pass them to a distiller, or any other person, who had two or three hundred thousand pounds to pay to the revenue. Thus the load of our debt kept up the credit of our bank notes. Where the system was to end it was not difficult to guess. He wished the Bank to resume a character for punctuality, and he should wish to support it under that character; but as no hope had been held out that such was to be the case, he was under the necessity of supporting the motion. He spoke of the plan of Mr. Hartsinck in terms of great approbation, and said, that in his mind it promised to be very useful.

Mr. Pitt said, he was free to acknowledge that it was not the principal duty of the Bank to look to the accommodation of government, as such; at the same time he must think the Bank would feel an advantage in identifying its interests with that of the public; it could not consult its prosperity so well by adopting any other line of conduct. He believed it to be a sound opinion that the public credit should be established on the same ground

with, and in the person of the Bank of England. He denied, that either government or the Bank had the interest that had been alleged, in the latter's not resuming its operations at the time proposed. The establishment of two banks would afford no relief as to the payment of taxes, nor be a benefit were they to have more notes in circulation than the property of the country. To the general opinion of the solidity of the Bank, it was to be principally ascribed that bank notes were at par. With many of the hon baronet's remarks he perfectly agreed; but unless the Bank was found incompetent to issue the quantity of paper wanted in circulation, or was unwilling so to do, the question would not be so much, whether a new bank was necessary, but rather, whether the present Bank did not want farther assistance, to enable them to carry on their extensive concern with advantage to the country at large? As to the doctrine of monopoly, he acknowledged it was unfavourable in many cases, and if the question now were, whether a new charter should or should not be granted to the Bank, it might deserve consideration; but he thought gentlemen should be extremely cautious, on such a subject, of drawing any arguments from mere theory, or from examples in other countries, in order to give up certain explained and experienced benefits. He did not see that the monopoly of the Bank was hostile to the interests of the country. How could the hon. baronet ascertain that two banks would answer better than one in respect to public convenience? It did not follow, that because there were two large banks in Scotland, there should be two rival banks in London. The Bank had, in his opinion, done its duty; nor did he see any cause for blaming the conduct of the directors because they had not imported more bullion; which ought rather to be left to natural causes to find its way into the country by the balance of trade in our favour, than to artificial means. He did not say that no circumstances could arise, in which it might not be proper to import coin, but their not having done so, did not prove the ill conduct of the directors. A successful progress had been made for some weeks past, towards re-opening the Bank for payments in specie; but no person had ever determined the precise moment when this ought to be done, or that it should positively be on the 24th of June next. He saw no reason why the

Debate in the Commons on Compensation to the Subscribers to the Loyalty Loan.] May 31. The House having resolved itself into a Committee of Ways and Means, and the 18 millions Loan bill, called the Loyalty Loan, being referred to the said committee,

Mr. Pitt said, that whatever regret he might feel at imposing any additional burthens upon the public, yet some proposition such as he was about to submit to the committee was called for by the peculiar circumstances of the case. The state of the funds at the period when the persons who were the object of the measure, which he should propose came forward with voluntary subscriptions to such an extent, he apprehended ought to be considered. He thought they ought to be considered as persons who came forward with a view of aiding the public service without any personal advantage; for there was no chance in their favour at the time they must have viewed it as a transaction in which they were likely to lose rather than to gain; and the burthen of that loan was considerably less upon the public than it must have been, had they not come forward in the way they had done. They did not, however, foresee that they would have met so heavy a loss. They had, therefore, an equitable, though, he admitted, no absolute ground of right to apply to the country for some relief. The whole of the loss ought not to fall upon persons who had so meritoriously come forward. The loss was 4 per cent before the payment of the deposit. The discount afterwards rose to 7, 8, and was now at 14 per cent. The subscribers

had made good their several payments; af circumstance which would not the less dispose the House to assist them. For the cause of this loss, we were to look to the various events that had taken place in Europe; the temporary interruption of our public credit; and the circumstance of his being compelled to come forward for an additional loan for the public service of the year. On these grounds, he felt it his duty to propose to the commit tee to contribute to the relief of those meritorious individuals. He knew of no particular rule whereby to judge of the losses of the different classes of the subscribers; but he should propose generally that they should be allowed 51. for every s 1001. original stock, that was, that each person should be entitled to 7s. 6d. long annuity for every 100l. The whole amount of the burthen upon the public would be between 60 and 70,000l. He therefore moved a resolution to the above effect.

Mr. Dent said, he could by no means give his vote for the measure proposed. He dreaded it as a matter of future example. No man could calculate the evil which such a precedent might bring upon the public. In 1779 and 1780 there had been loans in which the subscribers had suffered much, but nothing of this kind was granted to relieve their distresses. There was a shifting of tontine to relieve them a little; but here was to be voted away at once nearly 70,000l. of the public money, and for the payment of which, taxes were to be levied for ever on the people. He should certainly move, "That the chairman do leave the chair without putting this resolution." The 3 per cents were now between 47 and 48; when this loan was entered into they were about 56. Was not every holder of stock in the same situation as these gentlemen? He did not see in their case any thing to entitle them to especial favour. If the subscribers had profited 15 per cent they would not have suffered the public to partake of the advantage; but they found it to be a losing speculation, and called upon the public to bear a part of the loss. He saw no reason, nor justice, nor fairness, nor equity in this. They did not come forward as subscribers with any idea that they were to lose. If they came forward out of ostentation, they ought to pay the expense which attended that ostentation. He found it his duty to move, "That the chairman do now leave the chair."