Mr. HOLMAN. I submit the amendment to strike out the clause; and I desire to say, in addition to the explanation contained in the extract just read, that according to the last report made by the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution there seems to be on hand, of the appropriations for the last few years, the sum of $55,148.09. This amount of money is under the control of that institution-$30,910.14 being annually paid out of the Treasury of the United States for its maintenance. It is very true that this is interest on money which the Government assumed to pay-money which seems to have been loaned out many years ago, and lost. Still it is a direct charge on the Treasury.

Now it seems to me that one of the most desirable features in connection with the Smithsonian Institution, and that which gives to it any degree of popularity, is the museum for the preservation of which this appropriation is designed to be made; and it seems to me that, with so large a fund as that institution now has in its hands, and inasmuch as its object is the diffusion of knowledge among mankind, and as the museum is as effectual in accomplishing that purpose as any other, this $4,000 can very well be paid for such an object out of the annual appropriation. I therefore make the motion that this entire section be stricken out.

Mr. MORRILL, of Vermont. I dislike to oppose the motion of the gentlemen from Indiana, because I believe he is sincerely desirous of saving money to the Government. But in relation to this particular item I think he labors under a slight mistake. Now it is true that all our naval officers are instructed, or at least are in the habit of contributing every year to a very great extent specimens of natural history which are deposited in the Smithsonian Institution. This institution also receives a large collection of specimens in natural history from the various surveying and exploring expeditions. So large has been the receipts by this institution of these specimens that they have supplied many of the scientific associations in the country. This appropriation therefore is not for the benefit of the Smithsonian Institution particularly, but to enable them to take care of and distribute these contributions that are now deposited there, and which they would be very glad to be relieved from the care of. It is but a small item, and, so far as I know, the only one we make for the benefit of science. I hope it will not be stricken out.

Mr. HOLMAN. I ask the gentleman whether a very large amount of the interest annually paid upon the Smithsonian

fund is not absorbed in salaries? I understand that $6,500 is paid annually in the shape of salaries to the secretary and his assistants. It is true that the amount does not come out of the Government directly, but it comes out of the money to sustain that institution, of which some thirty thousand dollars is appropriated by the Government annually.

Mr. MORRILL, of Vermont. I answer the gentleman that the expenditure of the Smithsonian Institution fund is under the control and direction of the regents of that institution, and I suppose they are responsible for the manner in which those funds are expended. So far as I know, their management does not fully meet my approbation, and if we have the power, I should certainly be willing to ask for a reform in the management of that institution. But this is an entirely separate and distinct matter.

Mr. COLFAX. I move to reduce the appropriation $1,000. I make this motion merely for the purpose of saying that I hope the gentleman from Ohio, [Mr. Cox,] who is one of the regents of the Smithsonian Institution, will take care of my colleague [Mr. Holman] in this matter, and that he will defend the institution from the attacks upon it from that side of the House. [Laughter.]

Mr. HOLMAN. I wish to ask my colleague whether, in the expenditures of the $30,000 annually appropriated to supply the funds of this institution, there is any feature more entirely popular in its character or better calculated to carry out the purposes for which the original grant was made than the preservation and enlargement of the museum of the institution?

Mr. COLFAX. I say to my colleague that I concur with him in the remarks he has made; but as I am not yet sworn in as one of the regents, I must refer him for more particular information to the gentleman from Ohio. [Laughter.]

Mr. Cox. One word, sir. My friend from Indiana, [Mr. Holman,] who has been placed under my charge by the gentleman of Indiana over the way, [Mr. Colfax,] has made an attack upon this appropriation, and based his attack upon the expenditure of the Smithsonian fund. He finds fault with the action of the regents. In other words, he finds fault because they have taken the interest upon the fund left by that philanthropic Englishman, Smithson, and appropriated some six thousand dollars of it for the salaries of officers. I submit, sir, that the gentleman has no right, and that the House has no right, to inquire into the expenditure of that fund.

Mr. HOLMAN. Is not the interest upon that fund appropriated by Congress?

Mr. Cox. The expenditure of the interest upon the Smithsonian fund is under the direction of the regents and nobody else. Congress has nothing to do with it. All that Congress gives is simply the small amount of $4,000 to aid Smithson in his effort to diffuse useful knowledge among men and women also. [Laughter.] I hope the motion made by the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. Colfax] will, however, prevail. I hope this amount may be cut down to the extent of $1,000 to satisfy my economical friend on my right, [Mr. Holman,] I hope a small reduction will be made upon all these items to satisfy my friend from Indiana, and I think we might spare $1,000 from this amount for that purpose.

Mr. STEVENS. I wish to ask the gentleman from Ohio whether this is not the sum which has always been appropriated for this purpose, and whether that sum has not always been found necessary for the purpose of collecting and distributing these collections?

Mr. Cox. I suppose the chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means is perfectly familiar with these matters. I cannot answer, not having yet been sworn in as regent. [Laughter.]

Mr. STEVENS. I rose to ask the question, supposing that I had no right to answer it myself, when one of the regents was present. [Laughter.] If the gentleman from Ohio will give me leave to answer, I will state that this sum has always been appropriated, and the officers of the institution report that it is necessary for these purposes.

Mr. COLFAX. I withdraw my amendment.

Mr. HOLMAN. I renew the amendment. Before the question is taken on it, I desire to state that the sum of $30,000 is always appropriated in payment of the interest on this Smithson fund, although the Government itself has never received any benefit from the fund, and it is only equitably liable for the interest upon it. Out of that sum, as I have stated, $6,500 is paid in the shape of salaries, and if my memory serves me correctly, over $2,000 is placed under the head of contingent expenses, although all proper expenses seem to be covered by the various other items.

Inasmuch, however, as the preservation of this museum comes as much within the original intention of the donor as any other purpose to which it is applied, and is the only really popular feature of the institution, it seems to me that it can properly be provided for out of the regular fund.

THIRTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS,

Mr. Cox. For the information of the gentleman, I would like to correct him in his statement about the Government not being liable to pay this $30,000 interest money. The Government received $500,000 from the Smithson estate, and was unfortunate in the investment of the money. It invested it, I believe, in Arkansas bonds, which proved worthless. It received the money, and was accountable for it in all honor. And to carry out the purposes for which the fund was intended, they are bound to pay the interest upon the sum at six per cent., which is yearly due from the United States Treasury.

Mr. HOLMAN. I asserted that the payment of this $30,000 was munificence, and not justice, on the part of the Government. I ask the gentleman whether the Government acted, in the acceptance of this trust, in any other capacity than as trustee; and whether, as such, the money was not invested in good faith?

Mr. Cox. I say they did accept the trust, and got the

money.

Mr. HOLMAN. And did not they act in good faith in the investment of it, although it was lost?

Mr. Cox. I think they acted with very bad judgment.
The amendment was agreed to.

March 12, 1862.-Mr. MCPHERSON introduced a resolution for the appointment of Theo. D. Woolsey, of Connecticut, as regent, in place of C. C. Felton, deceased; referred to Committee on the Library.

March 14, 1862.-The following appropriation was made: "For putting the plates of the exploring expedition in order for preservation, and transporting them and the other effects of the expedition, to Washington, to be preserved in some of the public buildings, or at the Smithsonian Institution, $2,000, to be expended under the Joint Committee on the Library of Congress; and if any part of this appropriation shall remain unexpended for these purposes, the same may be applied, if necessary, to the completion of volume twenty-three of the works of said exploring expedition, or to the payment of any arrears of rent, or claims for service, due on account of any of said works."

March 27, 1862.-Mr. MCPHERSON asked unanimous consent to make a unanimous report from the Committee on Library, on resolution appointing T. D. Woolsey, regent. Mr. WASHBURNE. I object.

Mr. WASHBURNE subsequently withdrew his objection, and it was renewed by Mr. Cox.

March 28, 1862.-Mr. MCPHERSON reported the above resolution; and it was adopted.

April 17, 1862.-Mr. MCPHERSON, from the Committee on

the Library, reported a joint resolution (No. 67) to supply the Smithsonian Institution with a copy of each of the volumes of the Wilkes' Exploring Expedition. Adopted.

June 4, 1862.-Annual report of the Smithsonian Institution, for 1861, presented.

Mr. Cox moved that 5,000 extra copies be printed.

June 5, 1862.-Mr. CLARK, from the Committee on Printing, reported the following, which was adopted:

Resolved, That there be printed 5,000 extra copies of the report of the Smithsonian Institution, for the year 1861; the wood-cuts to be furnished at the expense of the Smithsonian Institution; 3,000 copies for the use of members of the House, and 2,000 for the use of the Institution.

February 19, 1863.-The next bill taken from the Speaker's table was a joint resolution expelling George E. Badger from the Board of Regents of the Smithsonian Institution, and appointing Louis Agassiz in his place; which was read a first and second time.

Mr. WASHBURNE. I move to refer that bill to the Committee on the Library.

Mr. THOMAS, of Massachusetts. I desire to ask the gentleman who reported this resolution what information he has in regard to the course and conduct of Mr. Badger which requires this resolution of expulsion?

Mr. Cox. This matter was initiated at a meeting of the Board of Regents of the Smithsonian Institution, at its last meeting. The statement was there made that Mr. Badger was a member of the North Carolina Legislature; that he had made a speech denouncing this Government and favoring the confederate government, and there was no one there who was authorized to deny that that reported speech was not authentic. I should be glad to relieve a gentleman of the high standing of Mr. Badger of any such imputation. He does not attend the meetings of the Regents of the Institution, and we need somebody there to fill his place. I should be happy to hear any statement in exculpation of that gentleman.

Mr. THOMAS, of Massachusetts. All I desire to say is, a letter attributed to him was afterwards stated to have been a forgery. I refer to a letter said to have been written to Governor Stanly.

Mr. MCPHERSON. There appears no doubt of the fact that Mr. Badger is at present a member of the Legislature of North Carolina, and of course he has assumed a position inconsistent with holding an appointment under the United States Government.