asked the question, and there the matter ended. But that was after a considerable lapse of time. He did not say this Government was any better or worse than any preceding one; but there was somehow or another with all Governments a desire to keep matters back, when, if they did their duty honourably and fairly to the country and to Parliament, they would at once make it their business to meet honourable members in a reasonable way when certain in- | formation was asked for. In that way, matters that now occupied a long time might be disposed of in five minutes. If, when reasonable information was asked for, Ministers said, "Here is a statement of the case"; or "Here are the facts; the honourable gentleman has got hold of certain things which are entirely erroneous, but this will indicate the facts"if they did that, there would be a considerable saving in time, not alone to the House, but to the whole Parliament. It was the want of this spirit that had tended to lengthen out the session on this occasion. When they met they had the promise of a very short session, and, instead of that, they had absolutely gone through a long one. It was not, however, a longer session than some within his experience. One year he remembered they sat there for over four months, and they were somewhat near that duration now. To convince the House how the real business of the country was sacrificed owing to the loss of time on less important matters, he had only to remind it of the way in which a matter of the importance of Colonel Fox's report was disposed of. That was a question that the House ought to have threshed out. The Government had simply by -should he be in order in saying "cowardice"? Mr. SPEAKER.-No. Mr. HAMLIN.-Well, if not, he would say, by their peculiar way of meeting the House they had simply burked the question. They knew the old saying, "Conscience doth make cowards of us all," but Heaven forbid that he should put that down to the Ministry, because he knew as men they were physically strong, and strong in every other way, and so honourable and so determined in the stand they assumed on such a question! At the same time, he, among many others, had been debarred from entering into the discussion of Colonel Fox's report. He was very sorry that he had not had that opportunity: not that he presumed to know more than other members did on the subject, but he certainly would have liked, as one who had served the colony in the capacity of a Volunteer for thirty-odd years, to have the opportunity of criticizing that report. There were certain things in that report upon which they required, and ought to have had, very considerable information. There were other things in it with which he entirely agreed. Mr. TAYLOR said, as numerous questions were put to the Premier, he was about to ask him to consider one, and that was, what he intended to do— An Hon. MEMBER.-For the poor and needy? Mr. TAYLOR said, No, not the poor and needy, for he knew the Premier would take care of them. He was quite satisfied the Government took great interest in the poor and needy of the colony, and he gave them credit for it. The question to which he wanted an answer was, what the Premier intended to do with the Legislative Council during the recess, seeing that it had slaughtered so much good work passed by the House. When they looked at Bill after Bill which they had dissected, why, it was something alarming. Instead of revising or attempting to revise or amend the legislation passed by the House, they simply threw it out, and that, too, without proper consideration. Mr. SPEAKER said the honourable gentleman must not enter into that question. Mr. TAYLOR said he would not do so, but he had no doubt the Premier would indicate, when he was replying to these questions, whether he could not devise some course to prevent a recurrence of that sort of thing next session. Now, the statement made by the Colonial Treasurer was a very satisfactory one, and he was rather astonished to find the honourable member for the Hutt objecting to the better prospects for the colony that were put forward in it. He would have thought, to an honourable gentleman like that, who represented a very large section of the community in Wellington, it would be rather gratifying than otherwise to hear a statement of that kind made by the Treasurer so early in the year. But, instead of that, for a party purpose, or for some other purpose which he did not intend to describe, the honourable gentleman denounced the statement as a fictitious one, and not in accordance with facts. He trusted that when the honourable gentleman went before the electors to ask for their suffrages, as he would be doing presently, he would be a little more careful, and not attempt to run down the prosperity of the colony or the finances of the colony, as he had done that Colonial Treasurer's statement was not correct. afternoon, by practically asserting that the He was rather astonished at an honourable gentleman who in the near future was likely to be a Colonial Treasurer himself doing such able gentleman was sitting on the Government a thing. He was quite sure, when the honourbenches, if he made a statement similar to the one which had been made that day by the present Colonial Treasurer, he would have the support of all those who had the interest of the would have no more reflections of that kind colony at heart. He (Mr. Taylor) trusted they passed on the administration of the Colonial Treasurer, because he himself believed if the little longer he would prove to be one of the Treasurer continued in his present position a ablest Treasurers they had ever had in the colony. Mr. HOGG said, in the expiring hours of the present Parliament he thought it was distinctly his duty, in reply to the well-timed remarks which Mr. Speaker had just made, to give utterance to his own appreciation of the fair and impartial manner in which Mr. | had been frustrated. Another thing to be deSpeaker had endeavoured to perform his duty precated was the trials of physical endurance. as Speaker of the House. He was well aware The business of Parliament was not conducted -in fact, he had been made conversant with in the way it should be, and he hoped honourthe fact that the duty of the Speaker was an able members would assist in securing a pracextremely trying one; that in endeavouring to tical reform, so that honourable members would hold the balance evenly his action was con- be allowed to retire within decent hours. tinually liable to be misapprehended and also Another thing that ought to be considered was misrepresented. But, although he had fre- some means of doing away with the large exquently heard various opinions expressed by pense that was now incurred in connection members of the House-by members, he might with Hansard. Hansard was inflated with say, especially of his (Mr. Hogg's) own side of dreary speeches, which nobody cared to read, the House-respecting Mr. Speaker's ruling, he and it had diminished in circulation. There had invariably found that these rulings had ought to be a daily Hansard, and the speeches been based on an intelligent apprehension of should be fairly condensed. The leader of the the mode in which the business of the House Opposition had expressed the opinion that the should be conducted. No one claimed to be result of the impending general election would perfect, but he did say that, notwithstanding be that the present Government would be the opinions that had been sometimes ex- beaten. With all due deference to that honourpressed by honourable members, he thought able gentleman's opinion, he felt satisfied there that the whole of the House would agree in would be no need to call Parliament together the opinion that the Speaker had succeeded in at an early stage, and he hoped there would discharging his duty in a way that gave satis- be no necessity for having two sessions in one faction to all sides. Having been identified, as year. The record of this Parliament was, he the honourable gentleman had been, and as thought, a good one, and, in spite of the rejecevery honourable member must be, with par- tion of measures by another Chamber, they ties in the House during a long connection had done good work, and the result of the with it, it was only right that he should endea- record would be the material strengthening of vour, if possible, to do away with any impres- the Government. His own impression was sion that might exist as to his being inclined that the Liberal cause had been greatly on the side of the party with whom he had strengthened, and he expected that when they been associated, and would endeavour to do returned after the election they would find the his duty without having any charge of par- present Opposition almost obliterated, and a tiality alleged against him. He had given new Opposition-which he would like to seeno cause for such a charge, and the result in its place of members who would be Radicals, was that the proceedings of the House could and who, instead of pulling the Government not have been conducted in a more admirable back, would push it forward. manner than during the present Parliament. With regard to the conduct of business, he would like to say a few words. He thought there was great room for reform in the conduct of business. It, seemed to him immaterial whether they met in May or June, or whether the session lasted for three or four months. What they wanted to do was to do their work effectually and well while they were there. In that connection there was great room for reform, and also with regard to the hours of business and the regulation of debates. He would say this: that if the business had been obstructed or unduly retarded it was not due to any one side of the House. It was only fair to the Opposition to say that there had been no unfairness by the bulk of the members on that side of the House. There had been obstruction, but that obstruction was due to a very few members of the House. The time had been wasted in listening to remarks that certainly did not facilitate the progress of business. They had had late hours, and he need not say they were destructive of useful legislation. The question of whether they should have morning or night sittings was a very important one. He agreed with the view that the business should be transacted in daylight, and the Committee business, if necessary, in the evening. The effect of the present system of moving the adjournment of the House was that a great deal of useful local legislation Mr. REEVES said the honourable member for Halswell had, after the manner of his party all through the session, tried to throw doubt on the bright position of the revenue as depicted by the Colonial Treasurer. He was exceedingly sorry that honourable gentlemen on that side should have made a practice of causing uneasiness throughout the colony with regard to the state of our finances. He did not think that was fair. What the honourable gentleman said was this: that it was all very well to point out that the revenue this year was better than last year, but he pointed out that the expenditure was very much larger in the way of interest charges, and he let it be inferred that the expenditure this year might be so much larger than last that the fact of the revenue being larger would make the colony in no better condition. This was all mighty fine, but the honourable gentleman knew that that kind of thing, although it might go down very well in the other Chamber, would not go down with the House. They knew better than that. The point was this: Their estimate of revenue was based upon the assumption that they would get rather less revenue this year than last, and our expenditure, which included all the interest charges referred to by the honourable gentleman, would give an ample excess of revenue over expenditure even had our revenue been somewhat less. Seeing that the revenue would be very largely in excess of that of last year, they had reason to believe they would have so much more ample a surplus over expenditure even than that estimated by the honourable member for the Hutt. Mr. DUTHIE said the Colonial Treasurer had referred that morning to an increase of revenue amounting to £41,600 for the past six months. He did not think, on comparison with the previous year, that that was any very great evidence of prosperity. The Hon. the Premier had stated at Napier that the Railway Commissioners ought not to have had a surplus, and explained that nothing was easier than, by underestimating, to provide a surplus. Well, he thought that might apply with greater force to the revenue and expenditure of the Government, who were certainly open to the suspicion that in the past they had underestimated to avoid a demand for a reduction of taxation upon the necessaries of life. He thought it was a cause for regret to find that the total increase was so infinitesimal on the volume of the revenue of the colony. He would have liked to have a little fuller explanation from the Colonial Treasurer with regard to the public debt, as he must confess he was going away without understanding it even now, especially as to how the net debt was occasionally larger than the gross debt, as asserted last night by the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer. It seemed to him that the Treasurer was a man of original resources when he could make up accounts to bear out such a statement as that. Mr. WARD said it was remarkable that all the Wellington members were seeking to become Colonial Treasurers. The honourable member for the Hutt and the honourable member for Wellington City (Mr. Duthie) had both made references that morning to the finances of the colony. He thought that honourable members representing Wellington City and district should settle among themselves which of them was to become the Colonial Treasurer of the future. Mr. BUCHANAN asked if one of those gentlemen might not join the Colonial Treasurer during the recess as a cadet. Mr. WARD said he believed it would be necessary for them to have passed the Sixth Standard before they could occupy that position, and, besides, it would have to be proved they were sound in wind and limb. Then, the honourable member for Wairarapa, who was aspiring to the position of Minister of Lands, might be able to come to some arrangement with his (Mr. Ward's) colleague the Minister of Lands during the recess. He thought the honourable member for Wellington City (Mr. Duthie) had treated him rather badly the previous evening. First of all, he would say that it was of considerable importance to New Zealand that she should not be at the present time in the unhappy position of having to disclose a deficit when the eye of the financial world was upon the colony. The colony had escaped from the terrible financial upheaval which had done so much to injure the other colonies. New Zealand showed a splendid posi tion in contrast with those other colonies. He thought every member of the House, irrespective of party, should show his patriotism when referring to the financial position. The first six months of the year-the worst half of the year-had produced an excess of £41,000. The question of expenditure did not arise in dealing with the increase of revenue. He thought members on both sides of the House would be glad to acknowledge the stability of the colony. Mr. SEDDON would only make a very few remarks, as he wished to give members an opportunity of going down to the steamer and seeing their southern friends off. In this connection, he might say that during the last Parliament there had always been very good feeling between members on both sides of the House, however much they might differ in politics; and he hoped that good feeling would be maintained. He hoped that in the future honourable members would abstain from casting personal reflections upon each other. He thought that should be avoided in every case, and that their probity and integrity as public men, and their fair fame,-no matter which side of the House members might belong to,were matters of great public concern. It should be the duty of every one to recollect that, because there were numbers of people outside the House who were only too glad to take advantage of statements made in the House. Amongst themselves he thought they ought to protect their own fair fame, and be the last to accuse one another of wilful wrongdoing. As regarded the early meeting of Parliament, mentioned by the honourable member for Selwyn, a great deal depended upon circumstances. The Government of the day were generally the best judges of what was required by the circumstances, and generally selected the time for the meeting. May, June, July, and August had generally been selected for the sitting of Parliament, and that time met the convenience of the large majority of members. That, he thought, must be taken into consideration. As a rule Governments kept off the meeting of Parliament as long as they could, and the Opposition generally pressed for the meeting at as early a date as possible. That was the position; and he did not think there would be any departure in this case. was very much pleased to hear from the leader of the Opposition the admission which had been made, that the Government were bound to come back with a majority, although it might be less than now existed. They had been told that their majority was too large. He had not found it so; and he did not fear that there would be any diminution in that majority. He felt that the country was well satisfied with the work that had been done by that Parliament, and particularly with the work of the Government and their supporters; and he would take that opportunity of thanking the Government supporters, one and all, for the loyal support they had accorded to him and his colleagues. Had it not been for that support, in view of the course adopted by the Opposition he would not say unfairly-but He no doubt the course they had taken had been to pull back, while the Government desired to go ahead. The pulling-back process had perhaps prevented legislation from going through which ought to have been passed. But he did not desire to hurt the feelings of any one. Then, they had been told that there should be a session immediately after the election. He did not at all agree with that. And, what was more, he felt as sure as that he stood there speaking that there would be no necessity for a session immediately after the election. He felt satisfied of that. Then, the honourable member was desirous of knowing when the elections would take place. That depended upon circumstances. He thought that members on both sides of the House would be desirous of seeing that our next elections were conducted upon rolls upon which was recorded the name of every qualified elector in the colony, male or female. The Government were doing their best to get the rolls completed, and when the rolls were in the state he referred to, and which it was the desire of the Government they should be in-namely, that they should give a fair chance to the electors of both sexes to give expression to their views at the ballot-box as to the politics and parties in the country-the Government would have no hesitation in saying that the elections would take place as soon as possible thereafter. An Hon. MEMBER.-That is very definite! Mr. SEDDON said that, under the circumstances, he could not make it any more definite. As regarded the questions of the Standing Orders, and the doing of the business at an earlier hour of the day, he was quite willing, and it might be convenient, that they should do their Committee work after twelve o'clock at night, and do the House work in the morning. It was impossible to have morning sittings so long as they had so large an amount of Committee work to do; and the question was, Would those gentlemen who advocated meet ing in the mornings say what they proposed to do with regard to the Committee work? Were they going to set apart certain days for Committee work, or do Committee work late at night? He thought the Committee work might be taken at half-past twelve o'clock a.m., and that a great many of the petitions might be referred to the Government for consideration. Ministers had been accused of having stopped information from being supplied to members that session, and it was said that by doing so the business had been delayed. When they came to pay the printing bill as regarded returns and information supplied, they would find that so much information had never been supplied before as had been supplied by the present Government. The returns would prove that. There were very few cases where information had been refused. Only in special cases had information been withheld, and this had been done for reasons stated by the Colonial Treasurer. He desired to point this out, and, if possible, lay some stress upon it. He had seen this occur in the House: that when particular members representing cer tain districts made requests, they had been marked, as it were, and any matters brought forward by these members had been objected to. This was very wrong. Fair consideration should be accorded to all matters brought before the House, and hostility should not be shown to particular members representing particular districts. He must say that honourable members opposite had shown loyalty to all the members of their own party only, but they had also shown hostility to certain matters brought forward by members on the Government side of the House. That was not fair to the districts concerned. He did not blame any member for a district for advocating the claims of his district: in fact, it was to his credit if he thought that certain works in his district should be prosecuted, and that those works were in the interests of the colony. Of course, he could not mention anything about measures which were upon the Order Paper which they had not been able to go on with, but there were two or three measures still on the Order Paper which he regretted very much they had not able to deal with that session. He supposed, however, they must be satisfied with what had been done. He felt satisfied that the laws passed that session would redound to the credit of the Parliament, and members on both sides of the House, he felt sure, would be able to look back to the work done in the present Parliament with pleasure and with pride. He regretted to say, in respect to a measure which had been passed by the House by a large majority, that it had been rejected in another place. He referred to the Local Authorities' By-laws Bill, which was brought in in consequence of the existence of a by-law which prevented certain religious bodies from observing their religious rites in the streets. That Bill was carried by a large majority in the House of Representatives, by the representatives of the people, who considered that there had been an infringement of the liberties of the people owing to the existence of such obnoxious by-laws. Under the circumstances he regretted very much that the measure had been rejected in another place, and there was no alternative now but for the Government to be guided by the wishes of the large majority of the members of that House, expressing, as they did, the opinion of the people of the country. There were two courses open. There was the course, which had been adopted in the past, of extending the clemency of the Crown to these cases. On further consideration, however, he thought that the constitutional course was the one they had adopted, and that was, boldly to ask Parliament to repeal the by-law. Seeing, however, that the Legislative Council had thrown out the Bill, there was another course open, and that was to ascertain in the superior Courts whether this local by-law was ultra vires, or whether it was in accordance with law. If it was ultra vires, then he said they had no right as a Government to allow to be branded as gaol-birds persons who had simply exercised their religious liberty and religious rites, and who had done such good work in the colony-they had no right to allow that to occur; and he thought they would be fully justified, in the face of the decisions which had been given by the different Courts in the Old Country, in New Zealand, and in the other colonies he thought now the Government would be perfectly justified in assisting to obtain a decision upon this question. He thought there ought to be a test case taken, to set at rest the legal position. If the by-law was ultra vires, they would then know where they were. He desired to make that statement because he knew some honourable members felt, as he did himself, very strongly on the question. There was no time to take any further action that session. He would conclude by desiring to express to Mr. Speaker on behalf of the members of the House their good wishes. There might have been differences of opinion which had occurred during the time Mr. Speaker had been in the chair, but, on behalf of both sides of the House, he might say that they felt assured that Mr. Speaker had always endeavoured to act impartially, and he had always been courteous, and, if anything, he had been almost too kind. That was the opinion, he believed, of every member of the House; and he would, in conclusion, say that he wished Mr. Speaker well, and the feeling which the honourable gentleman had expressed to honourable members was heartily reciprocated. As they were parting now, and probably some would not meet again in that Chamber, he desired to express the utmost good-will to all members. They had their troubles before them. He hoped all would enjoy good health, live long to enjoy the fruits of their labours, and, no matter in what capacity, that they would do their duty to their country. Mr. SPEAKER desired to thank the Premier and the honourable member for Masterton for the very kindly remarks which they had made in reference to himself. He thought that the present Parliament had maintained the high reputation which the New Zealand Legislature had always held -a reputation which was second to none among the Parliaments of the Empire, if it did not, indeed, hold the premier position. He again thanked honourable gentlemen for the kindly remarks they had made in regard to himself. Motion agreed to, and the House adjourned till five o'clock p.m. MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR. Mr. SPEAKER said he had waited upon the Governor and had presented to him the Appropriation Bill, to which he had been pleased to give his assent on behalf of Her Majesty. His Excellency thanked the House for the provision made for the public service, and also congratulated the House upon the measures passed during the session, in particular that which extended the franchise to women, and that which consolidated the criminal law. |