IRELAND.-Catholic Association,

gions together; though he believed it to be impossible to maiptain those resolutions about the Church of Ireland and the Catholic question together (cheers). That that great question had retrograded, he thought he had assigned sufficient reasons to prove. It was his opinion, moreover, that if the Catholic Association were to continue, after the language that had been used in its name, and the intimidations of which it had been made the vehicle, there would be such a resistance in this country to carrying the question, as would, perhaps, be fatal to it. An observation had been made that all that remained to be granted to Ireland, affected only the higher classes of society, and to the lower, therefore, must be matter of indifference. Now, there was no argument that he should be at all times more ready to answer, or that he should, in times past, have felt more eagerness to combat, than the supposition that the lower classes would not be affected by that which regarded the higher--that there was no necessary sympa- | thy between their cases, although the chain that connected them was one of innumerable links (hear, hear). It was true, that what remained to be granted to Ireland, must now be granted to her higher classes; for, by what he considered to be a great mistake in legislation, every thing which Parliament had yet granted in the nature of concession, had been granted to the rabble, as he might say; while it had been carefully withheld from the peer. All that the argument in question went to, was that the miseries of the lower orders of land did not arise from the withholding of this particular boon. It was a question of feeling, simply, and not of fact. He was satisfied that until all classes were admitted to the full participation of all the rights of their fellow-sub-be possibly held out to any man than was at that jects, the great work would never be complete. time extended to him-when he might have These being his opinions, he had to complain of reaped the fruits of the harvest which he had the hon. bart. for imputing it to him as a reproach that he was connected with an adminis- (loud cheers)? But the answer of the Cabinet sown under such discouraging circumstances tration divided on the Catholic question; and being what it was, he at once declined taking for appearing to insinuate, that his conduct office. After these transactions that house adcould only be explained by supposing him to dressed the Throne for a more efficient adminishave been actuated by a love of office. He de- tration; and the negociation was confided to fied the hon. bart. to point out the day, or the Lord Wellesley and himself. month, since 1801, in which his animadversions addressed himself to Lord Grey-he communiwould not have been applicable to any Cabi-cated with Lord Liverpool. This proved that Lord Wellesley net. There had been periods, indeed, in which his opinions, however erroneous, had been conthere had been a general determination to re- sistent. sist all concession to the Catholics; but of such think him wrong in this opinion, but he claimed He did not condemn those who might a Cabinet he had never been a member (cheers). from them the candour of a fair judgment of his To the administration under which the Union acts, when he showed that when he was comtook place, succeeded that of Lord Sidmouth, missioned, not to join, but to frame an adminisof which the late Lord Castlereagh became a tration-not to occupy and conduct the helm of member. Next came Mr. Pitt's administration public affairs, but to distribute those duties to of 1805. It was true, that in respect to Lord others that then, under circumstances which Sidmouth's and Mr. Pitt's administrations there placed him above personal imputation, he was a bond of union, arising from the obstacles would have formed, if he could, an administrato the passing this question, recognized by all tion holding different opinions upon this importheir members, which effectually silenced all tant question, yet agreed upon others which inspeculative differences among individuals who volved the best interests of the community. He concurred in rejecting the question altoge- might have erred in forming this deliberate ther. After the death of Mr. Pitt, the Cabinet judgment as to the best way of composing an of Lord Grenville and Mr. Fox was formed administration; but to the charge of sinister and he was not recapitulating these facts for views and want of integrity, he disdained to the purpose of retorting on hon. gents, oppo- proffer an answer (cheers). Here he must take site the vulgar reproach of "you have done the liberty to complain of a most disingenuous the same;" but of historically proving the posi- use which had been made of his refusal to join tion. In that Cabinet were two persons entirely adverse to the Catholic claims-Lord Sid- to be drawn, that that refusal was a virtual office then, in 1812, and the inference attempted mouth, and the Chief of a Court, in which he pledge, never to enter office until the Cabinet hoped a member of the Cabinet would never be had agreed to move onwards with the Catholic sought again-the Court of King's Bench. Next question. He had refused to come into an ad

came the administrations of the Duke of Port land and of Mr. Perceval; in which some sort of division existed.. The course which he determined to pursue, was adopted in 1812. On the removal of the restrictions from the Regency, he anticipated that his colleagues would have felt themselves as unfettered by former ob stacles as he did; but on applying to the administration, he was informed that the Catholic question would still be refused by the Cabinet. He then took his leave. He next alluded to Mr. Grattan's bill of 1812, and to the motion that he himself then submitted, calling upon Government to take the Catholic question into consideration. While that motion was depending, Mr. Perceval died; and after his death, office was offered to him by the remnant of the Cabinet. He sent but one question-did they They answered they were so determined; and persevere in opposing the Catholic question? he accordingly refused office (cheers). At no period of his life would office have been such a temptation to him. He had been in office before; he had been the author, in a great measure, and in that house the responsible defender of the Spanish war. contests which all the disasters and reverses He had gone through the that attended the commencement of that war called down upon the administration. In 1812, the prospect seemed to brighten-success attended our arms-and the cause which he had so long advocated under less auspicious circumstances, began to promise those triumphant reIre-sults that ultimately crowned it. He would ask every hon. member who had within him the spirit of an English gentleman, and was animated by a heart-felt desire to serve his country. whether greater temptation to take office could

IRELAND.-Catholic Association.

101

ministration united against the Catholic ques- was that the only sacrifice he had made? Let tion, and if by that refusal he meant to have the house and the country hear him on that said, "I will never enter office until you are point. From the earliest dawn of his public agreed upon this question," what madness was life-ay, from the first visions of his youthful it not in him, within one short fortnight after, to and academic contemplation, there had been have endeavoured to form the sort of mixed one paramount object of his ambition-it was administration which he had described? The his earliest and latest hope-he looked to it case merely required to be stated to carry with with an anxious and ardent glance-before it it its own refutation (hear, hear). These were all other prospects of ambition vanished-in the circumstances which had preceded his mo- comparison with it all the blandishments of tion upon the Catholic question. That motion power, all the rewards and honours of the was carried by a majority, which would to crown-all vanished into nothing before the one object which, through life, had been God he could see again! of 129. The same motion was brought on a fortnight after by Lord dearest to his heart-it was to represent the Wellesley in the House of Lords, when the University in which he had been educated. He Dombers were, 126 against, and 125 in favour was in the fair way of obtaining that highest of it; the measure being only lost by a majo- reward of his labours, when the Catholic quesrity of one. From that time, then, in the year tion crossed his way. He had adhered to his 1812, the Cabinet had gone on acting upon the principles, and thereby forfeited his claim same basis respecting this measure as at pre- (hear, hear). In that loss, he had lost all: sent. To the principle of it he acceded: he when the question came forward, his pledges might err in judgment; but when the principle and his consistency absorbed his thoughts-they complained of in his case had been acted upon came across him just then, and he redeemed for 25 years, why was he alone to be held liable them; but from that hour to this he had never for the whole responsibility? Why was that stated, either in private or in public, the extent point of conduct to be selected to fix upon his of the irretrievable sacrifice which he had character a shadow of imputation, or on his ac- made at the shrine of his honour (loud cheers). tions a suspicion of insincerity (hear, hear)? Was it not a little too much, then, to be taunted He could, however, throw some light upon the and twitted as he had been, for his imputed motive for this selection, for he was perfectly compromise? Therefore let his judgment be In regarding this Catholic quesaware why he had individually become ob- arraigned, but let his honour be acquitted norious to some, at least, of the advocates of that (hear, hear). cause of which he had been the zealous advocate. tion, if it were ever carried-and sure he was It had been uniformly his determination, to in- it would-in his opinion it would never be effected by a cabinet expressly formed for that troduce and support the Catholic question, with out holding any communication with the Catho- purpose. His belief was, that such a cabinet lic body. He had shaped his conduct and ad- would not only fail in its object, but create a If, then, it were Vocated their question, not for their sake alone, flame of discord in the country which it would but for the sake of the empire-not with the be difficult to quench. feelings of a party man, but with those of a carried at all, it could only be done by discuscomprehensive benevolence. This was the rea- sions in that house, leading to parliamentary son why he was singled out for attack-be- decisions, which would operate upon the cause his doctrine had been, that when any sect Government, not so much as a deliberative had a grievance to complain of, that it was for body, but as one consenting to and abiding by Parliament to consider the case, and decide the decision of the Parliament. It had been imwhat they ought to give or withhold, and that puted to him individually, with too flattering a it was for the petitioners to receive the measure notion of his influence, that he had the means He of carrying his view of this question into of redress which was provided for them. had always denied to such parties the privilege effect. He was certainly at perfect liberty in Whether be of stipulating and meting out for themselves office, as well as out of it, to move the question the relief with which they would be satisfied, whenever he pleased to do so. and of dictating to Parliament the terms of ad- did so while in office-whether he did so out of justing their claims. Both principle and ex-office-whether in either case he should move perience had taught him to exercise and deter- it at all-was a consideration which he remine his actions upon his own reflection and served for his own discretion. Imputations or judgment, and not to be led, governed or re-appeals to him would in this view be made in strained by theirs (hear, hear). He had many vain; he would hold the rein over his own apologies to offer for thus intruding his private guidance, and not be driven from his course To (hear, hear). He had been asked whether he feelings upon their attention (cheers). be thus taupted with a want of feeling for had no desire for popularity. The man who the claims of the Catholics-to be charged disregarded it would be unfit for office in a with truckling to a compromise of their rights country which boasted a popular constitution -to hear this constantly insinuated against him (hear, hear). He had encountered too often the vicissitudes of public life not to bear unby those who owed him gratitude for his services in their cause-was a species of treat- popularity without fear; but he desired, like ment which called upon tameness itself to all men, if he could, to retain popularity vindicate its claims. He had told them, that honourably. His motto was laudo manentem, in 1812, at that period when he would have and he should add, in the language of Dryden"I can enjoy her while she's kind; given ten years of life for two years of office, Bot for any sordid or mean purpose of selfish But when she dances in the wind, aggrandizement, but for a different and more honourable object (hear, hear)—at that period And shakes her wings, and will not stay, they knew that he had peremptorily refused I puff the prostitute away" (cheers and laughter) office, rather than enter a cabinet collectively He would not court her by the surrender of pledged against the Catholic question. But his judgment or opinions. If the learned gent.

(Mr. Brougham), who had on the first night of te session identified himself with the Catholic Association, thought he had gained the palm of popularity, he could not congratulate him upon the fancied acquisition. He did not mean to talk lightly of the learned gent.'s support of this question; he could not undervalue the services of such an advocate in any cause which he thought fit to support-his immense talents, his great acquirements, his profound knowledge, his powerful reasoning, must at all times secure him the applause of those for whom he devoted them; but he would prophesy that in thus applying them, he would find he bad in the end mistaken his road to fame

46stetimus tela aspera contra, Contulimusque manus: experto credite quan

tus

In clypeum assurgat, quo turbine torqueat hastam."

Differing, then, as he did from the learned gent. as to the Catholic Association; for the sake of the Catholic question itself, he would take his firm stand by the present measure (hear, hear). It was because he thought that all that had been done, had been effected by temporary expedients because they ought to act with circumspection because they must remove all obstacles to the Catholic question, one by one, for the purpose of recovering public favour to it, that he supported the bill. As one means of that recovery, the removal of the Association was indispensable; and if the Association should remove itself, it would indeed have been beneficial to Ireland, by having given rise to this useful measure.

of the prosecutor. In the other, the house was led to believe that the efforts of the Association, who had ranged themselves above the law-who had confederated-who had clubbed money-who had borne down upon their intended victim with the weight of their united opinion, expressed in a previous debate-they were told that all these efforts had ended-in what? In an unanimous acquittal. But then, said the hon. member for Hertfordshire," it might have been otherwise." Now mark the subtlety-" It might have been otherwise!" To this he would only reply, that had it been otherwise, his view of the present measure might have been otherwise (hear, hear, hear). If, instead of an acquittal, the character of if the storm which blew harmlessly over him, the prisoner had been wrecked by a verdictbecause the law had found him innocent, had overwhelmed him, and he had sunk in the waves of persecution-then, he would have admitted that the existence of the Association was not so safe-that its proceedings were not likely to contribute so largely to the advantage of the Catholic population. And this was all which could be produced from that storehouse of expedients, the Irish office! But he had not yet done with them. One of those cases had been grossly mis-stated by the informants of the rt. hon. Sec. opposite. His advisers had mingled the poison of their own wicked invention with the tales which they poured into his ready and willing ear. After the exposure he was about to make, he should like to see the man who would have front and nerve enough, avowedly to support this measure, without papers, without documents, without the form even of a select committee, or the more odious pretext of a green bag, to lead it on; merely because the Irish Sec. had given his word for its propriety. They were told that 43 magis trates had instantly acquitted the prisoner ; and some stress was laid on the respectability of their characters; especially that of Mr. Blackburn. They were induced to believe that, with almost the same readiness and unanimity, they had declared that there was not the shadow of a charge against the prisoner. He had read the account of that trial. He found that the minority was considerable of those gentlemen who refused to sanction the assertion, that there was not the shadow of a charge. He had read the whole of the examinations. He found that there was a surprise on the prosecutor. Statements were advanced on the trial which had not been made on the exa

Mr. Brougham began by regretting that the numerous personal topics introduced into the debate, more particularly by the last speaker, were attended with this unpleasant consequence to himself, that whereas the rt. hon. gent. had entertained the house with those personal anecdotes, which were well known to chain their attention more than any other description of address, he was compelled to confine himself strictly to the measure itself. He stood before them as the defender of the Catholic Association, as the advocate of the right of the Irish people to meet, to consult, to petition, to remonstrate-ay, and to demand (cheers); and he would declare his solemn opinion, which he hoped would reach the whole of Ireland as well as England, that the firmer and stronger their remonstrances, provided they were peaceable, the greater would be their prospect of success, in obtaining those privi-minations; and others which had been made leges which alone made life desirable. Were were contradicted, and no reason assigned. the complainants to become abject in their That prevented a verdict, and a large minority suit, they would deservedly prostrate them- of the magistrates refused to vote that there selves and their cause, and lapse into the con- was no foundation for the charge. But he had tempt which was due to slaves. The house more evidence. Since the commencement of would at once see that he did not mean to this debate, he had seen and conversed with blink the question: he took not this course the leading counsel who prosecuted for the from any love of fleeting popularity, which he murder at Ballybay. It had been as forcibly knew as well as the rt. hon. gent. how to give alleged in this, as in the other case, that there the wind to. What were the acts charged against was no foundation whatever for the prosecution. the Association? the first and gravest, was On the trial there was the grossest discrepancy their interference with the administration of of evidence. One set of witnesses proved justice. Their offences in this way were that the murdered man was knocked down, his limited by gentlemen opposite to two cases, in ribs broken, and that horrible mutilations were neither of which had their attempts been suc-effected upon his person; and this was contracessful. In one, it was alleged that the judge who tried the cause praised the conduct of the prisoner; he had also applauded the conduct

dicted by the surgeon, who stated that the body had received no direct harm in the fray, the death-blow being given by the fall. The fact

He was

was this:-The prisoners were put upon their was administered in Ireland with the same
trial under the deepest and gravest suspicion. decency and impartiality as in England? They
One of the witnesses deposed, that another man, had been told by two learned persons, that the
whom he should know were he to see him again, courts of justice in Ireland were open to all;
but whose name he did not know, nor had he which forcibly reminded him of an observation
seen him before, came first up to the deceased of Mr. Horne Tooke's, in reply to a similar
and struck him violently, so as to cause his remark respecting the courts of justice in
death; and that then the officers rushed forward, England. "We are informed," said that acute
and mistakingly seized one of the prisoners, who reasoner, "that the courts are open to all-so
was innocent. Bread and wine were brought is the London Tavern ; but with this difference,
to the dead man, and offered to him as he lay that unless you have money to pay, you can
on the pavement, dead as a stone, and known have nothing.' Another difference distin-
to be so. On being cross-examined, he was guished the Irish taverns of justice. There,
asked if he had ever revealed these circum- as here, the bars of the tavern were open to all
stances before? Never. Had he not been comers; here, however, if a poor man could
before the magistrate? Yes. And before the muster a little money, he could walk in and
coroner? Yes. Had he uttered a word of would be served with the same commodity
this before either of them? He had not. He which the rich man enjoyed. But at the Irish
was the servant of the prisoner's brother, he taverns for law-whether the Weather-cock,
was on good terms with his master, and the the Rock or the Bottomless-pit, for such were
prisoner and the brother were very well agreed. the names they passed by, they had one com-
He was then asked why he had not mentioned modity for the rich, and another for the poor.
a word of this before? The judge who tried For this they had better authority than the
the cause refused to allow the question to assurances of the two learned gentlemen.
be put (loud cries of bear !).
Lord Redesdale, after serving the office of
speaking in the presence of many able law- Chancellor in Ireland, must have known some-
yers-men who had assisted in as many trials thing of the judges, and enough of the pro-
as there were hairs upon their heads; who ceedings in courts of justice; and it was his
were used equally to the difficulties of prose- opinion-that in Ireland there was one law for
cuting and defending. He left it to them to the rich, and another law for the poor. Now
defend the conduct of that judge, if they for the other charges against the Association.
dared. He would notice one extraordinary And, first, for the charge of impudence: in
omission which he had remarked in all the other words-their acting openly and without
speeches of the gentlemen opposite-the name reserve, showing their designs and intentions in
of the judge who had presided. He would in the face of day. Now if they had skulked
fairness to that learned person name him, from the public eye, they would have heard
though in fairness he would omit that which had the opposite charge, that their designs must be
been said of him by an hon, member of that dangerous because they were secret-because
house-that it required the likeness of two ani- they did not proclaim their purposes as vir-
mals to describe him: for he had the ferocity tuous innocence always did? Boldness and
of one, and the baseness of another, which impudence were now ascribed: then it would
the beast of ferocity wanted. That learned have been perfidy and fraud. They were ac-
judge, was Baron M'Clelland. He had read cused of aping and emulating the forms of
over the evidence, and he was not only not satis- Parliament-those solemn and authoritative
fied with the acquittal; but his positive opinion, forms which were so often the theme of praise.
founded on a statement in an Orange news- Had they done otherwise, would not the charge
paper, was that the men had a very lucky have been inverted? They would then have
escape. At the same assizes, the Association been accused of daring innovation, of showing
had undertaken some proceedings of a defen- in the very order of their proceedings the revo-
sive kind. The learned counsel employed by lutionary spirit of the French Convention, and
them in that business, was engaged, when it an envy of its powers. But now-astonishing
was called on, in a cause under trial on the impudence!-they encroached upon Parlia-
civil side of the court. Baron M'Clelland was ment-they borrowed and abused its forms-
espectfully entreated to delay the trial till they, who really represented six millions of
the prisoner could have the aid of his counsel: people; while the house represented twelve
he refused the request. A messenger was then millions, with whom they were perpetually at
sent to inform the counsel that the prosecution variance. Then they were self-elected, self-
must proceed. The messenger was prevented constituted, self-regulated, self-adjourned-all
by the throng from coming near enough to give of which meant that they did not really repre-
him notice. The judge still refused any delay, sent the Catholic population. No; for if they
and the man was burried to trial in this em- did, it would be illegal; if they affected the
barrassed state, without the assistance of his situation of delegates, they fell within the
Counsel, without preparation of any kind. Convention Act: if they elected themselves,
When the counsel entered from the other they were not true representatives. How un-
court, the first witness had been examined. fortunate was this body! If they were open,
He begged that he might be allowed to cross- they were impudent; if secret, designing.
examine. The same judge who had refused to If they found open fault, it was turbulence; if
allow the question of cross examination in the they were quiet, there was danger. Did they
case of the murder, and by that means rescued pronounce censure or blame? That was disaf-
one prisoner from the fate which hung over fection. Did they praise? That was hypo-
him, now refused the necessary cross-examina-crisy. Nothing they could say or do would
tion of a witness whose word was staked satisfy their opponents, and the bill stated that
against the prisoner without any cross-exami- the only way of reconciliation was to destroy
nation (hear, hear). The prisoner was con- them altogether. "I don't care," said at non
victed, and sentenced to twelve months imprison-member," about the blustering of Ireland, but
ment. Should he be told after this, that justice beware," added this alarming logician, " when