IRELAND.-Catholic Association,

gions together; though he believed it to be im- came the administrations of the Duke of Portpossible to maiptain those resolutions about the land and of Mr. Perceval; in which some sort Church of Ireland and the Catholic question to- of division existed. The course which he degether (cheers). That that great question had termined to pursue, was adopted in 1812. On retrograded, he thought he had assigned suffi- the removal of the restrictions from the Recient reasons to prove. It was his opinion, gency, he anticipated that his colleagues would moreover, that if the Catholic Association were have felt themselves as unfettered by former ob to continue, after the language that had been stacles as he did; but on applying to the admiused in its name, and the intimidations of which nistration, he was informed that the Catholic it had been made the vehicle, there would be such question would still be refused by the Cabinet. a resistance in this country to carrying the ques- He then took his leave. He next alluded to tion, as would, perhaps, be fatal to it. An ob- Mr. Grattan's bill of 1812, and to the motion servation had been made that all that remained that he himself then submitted, calling upon to be granted to Ireland, affected only the Government to take the Catholic question into higher classes of society, and to the lower, consideration. While that motion was dependtherefore, must be matter of indifference. Now, ing, Mr. Perceval died; and after his death, there was no argument that he should be at all office was offered to him by the remnant of the times more ready to answer, or that he should, Cabinet. He sent but one question-did they in times past, have felt more eagerness to combat, than the supposition that the lower classes They answered they were so determined; and persevere in opposing the Catholic question? would not be affected by that which regarded he accordingly refused office (cheers). At no the higher--that there was no necessary sympa- | period of his life would office have been such a thy between their cases, although the chain temptation to him. He had been in office bethat connected them was one of innumerable fore; he had been the author, in a great mealinks (hear, hear). It was true, that what re-sure, and in that house the responsible defender mained to be granted to Ireland, must now be of the Spanish war. granted to her higher classes; for, by what he contests which all the disasters and reverses He bad gone through the considered to be a great mistake in legislation, that attended the commencement of that war every thing which Parliament had yet granted called down upon the administration. In 1812, in the nature of concession, had been granted the prospect seemed to brighten-success atto the rabble, as he might say; while it had been carefully withheld from the peer. All tended our arms-and the cause which he had that the argument in question went to, was stances, began to promise those triumphant reso long advocated under less auspicious circumthat the miseries of the lower orders of Ire-sults that ultimately crowned it. He would land did not arise from the withholding of this ask every hon. member who had within him the particular boon. It was a question of feeling, spirit of an English gentleman, and was anisimply, and not of fact. He was satisfied that mated by a heart-felt desire to serve his country until all classes were admitted to the full par- whether greater temptation to take office could ticipation of all the rights of their fellow-sub- be possibly held out to any man than was at that jects, the great work would never be complete. time extended to him-when he might have These being his opinions, he had to complain of reaped the fruits of the harvest which he had the hon. bart. for imputing it to him as a reproach that he was connected with an adminis- (loud cheers)? But the answer of the Cabinet sown under such discouraging circumstances tration divided on the Catholic question; and being what it was, he at once declined taking for appearing to insinuate, that his conduct office. After these transactions that house adcould only be explained by supposing him to dressed the Throne for a more efficient adminishave been actuated by a love of office. He de- tration; and the negociation was confided to fied the hon. bart. to point out the day, or the Lord Wellesley and himself. month, since 1801, in which his animadversions addressed himself to Lord Grey-he communiwould not have been applicable to any Cabi-cated with Lord Liverpool. This proved that Lord Wellesley net. There had been periods, indeed, in which his opinions, however erroneous, had been conthere had been a general determination to re-sistent. He did not condemn those who might sist all concession to the Catholics; but of such a Cabinet he had never been a member (cheers). To the administration under which the Union took place, succeeded that of Lord Sidmouth, of which the late Lord Castlereagh became a member. Next came Mr. Pitt's administration of 1805. It was true, that in respect to Lord Sidmouth's and Mr. Pitt's administrations there was a bond of union, arising from the obstacles to the passing this question, recognized by all their members, which effectually silenced all speculative differences among individuals who concurred in rejecting the question altogether. After the death of Mr. Pitt, the Cabinet of Lord Grenville and Mr. Fox was formed and he was not recapitulating these facts for the purpose of retorting on hon. gents, opposite the vulgar reproach of "you have done the same;" but of historically proving the position. In that Cabinet were two persons entirely adverse to the Catholic claims-Lord Sidmouth, and the Chief of a Court, in which he hoped a member of the Cabinet would never be sought again-the Court of King's Bench, Next

think him wrong in this opinion, but he claimed from them the candour of a fair judgment of his acts, when he showed that when he was commissioned, not to join, but to frame an administration-not to occupy and conduct the helm of public affairs, but to distribute those duties to others that then, under circumstances which placed him above personal imputation, be would have formed, if he could, an administration holding different opinions upon this important question, yet agreed upon others which involved the best interests of the community. He might have erred in forming this deliberate judgment as to the best way of composing an administration; but to the charge of sinister views and want of integrity, he disdained to proffer an answer (cheers). Here he must take the liberty to complain of a most disingenuous use which had been made of his refusal to join office then, in 1812, and the inference attempted to be drawn, that that refusal was a virtual pledge, never to enter office until the Cabinet had agreed to move onwards with the Catholic question. He had refused to come into an ad

IRELAND.-Catholic Association.

ministration united against the Catholic ques- was that the only sacrifice he had made? Let tion, and if by that refusal he meant to have the house and the country hear him on that said, "I will never enter office until you are point. From the earliest dawn of his public agreed upon this question," what madness was life-ay, from the first visions of his youthful it not in him, within one short fortnight after, to and academic contemplation, there had been have endeavoured to form the sort of mixed one paramount object of his ambition-it was administration which he had described? The his earliest and latest hope-he looked to it case merely required to be stated to carry with with an anxious and ardent glance-before it it its own refutation (hear, hear). These were all other prospects of ambition vanished-in the circumstances which had preceded his mo- comparison with it all the blandishments of tion upon the Catholic question. That motion power, all the rewards and honours of the was carried by a majority, which would to crown-all vanished into nothing before the one object which, through life, had been God he could see again! of 129. The same motion was brought on a fortnight after by Lord dearest to his heart-it was to represent the Wellesley in the House of Lords, when the University in which he had been educated. He numbers were, 126 against, and 125 in favour was in the fair way of obtaining that highest of it; the measure being only lost by a majo- reward of his labours, when the Catholic quesrity of one. From that time, then, in the year tion crossed his way. He had adhered to his 1812, the Cabinet had gone on acting upon the principles, and thereby forfeited his claim same basis respecting this measure as at pre- (hear, hear). In that loss, he had lost all: sent. To the principle of it he acceded: he when the question came forward, his pledges might err in judgment; but when the principle and his consistency absorbed his thoughts-they came across him just then, and he redeemed complained of in his case had been acted upon for 25 years, why was he alone to be held liable them; but from that hour to this he had never for the whole responsibility? Why was that stated, either in private or in public, the extent point of conduct to be selected to fix upon his of the irretrievable sacrifice which he had character a shadow of imputation, or on his ac- made at the shrine of his honour (loud cheers). tions a suspicion of insincerity (hear, hear)? Was it not a little too much, then, to be taunted He could, however, throw some light upon the and twitted as he had been, for his imputed motive for this selection, for he was perfectly compromise? Therefore let his judgment be aware why he had individually become ob- arraigned, but let his honour be acquitted norious to some, at least, of the advocates of that (hear, hear). In regarding this Catholic quescause of which he had been the zealous advocate. tion, if it were ever carried-and sure he was It had been uniformly his determination, to in- it would-in his opinion it would never be effected by a cabinet expressly formed for that troduce and support the Catholic question, with out holding any communication with the Catho- purpose. His belief was, that such a cabinet lic body. He had shaped his conduct and ad- would not only fail in its object, but create a Vocated their question, not for their sake alone, flame of discord in the country which it would but for the sake of the empire-not with the be difficult to quench. If, then, it were feelings of a party man, but with those of a carried at all, it could only be done by discuscomprehensive benevolence. This was the rea- sions in that house, leading to parliamentary son why he was singled out for attack-be- decisions, which would operate upon the cause his doctrine had been, that when any sect Government, not so much as a deliberative had a grievance to complain of, that it was for body, but as one consenting to and abiding by Parliament to consider the case, and decide the decision of the Parliament. It had been imwhat they ought to give or withhold, and that puted to him individually, with too flattering a it was for the petitioners to receive the measure notion of his influence, that he had the means He of carrying his view of this question into of redress which was provided for them. had always denied to such parties the privilege effect. He was certainly at perfect liberty in Whether be of stipulating and meting out for themselves office, as well as out of it, to move the question the relief with which they would be satisfied, whenever he pleased to do so. and of dictating to Parliament the terms of ad- did so while in office-whether he did so out of justing their claims. Both principle and ex-office-whether in either case he should move perience had taught him to exercise and deter-it at all-was a consideration which he remine his actions upon his own reflection and served for his own discretion. Imputations or judgment, and not to be led, governed or re-appeals to him would in this view be made in strained by theirs (bear, hear). He had many vain; he would hold the rein over his own apologies to offer for thus intruding his private guidance, and not be driven from his course To (hear, hear). He had been asked whether he feelings upon their attention (cheers). be thus taupted with a want of feeling for had no desire for popularity. The man who the claims of the Catholics-to be charged disregarded it would be unfit for office in a with truckling to a compromise of their rights country which boasted a popular constitution -to hear this constantly insinuated against him (hear, hear). He had encountered too often the vicissitudes of public life not to bear unby those who owed him gratitude for his services in their cause-was a species of treat-popularity without fear; but he desired, like ment which called upon tameness itself to all men, if he could, to retain popularity vindicate its claims. He had told them, that honourably. His motto was laudo manentem, in 1812, at that period when he would have and he should add, in the language of Dryden"I can enjoy her while she's kind; given ten years of life for two years of office, Bot for any sordid or mean purpose of selfish But when she dances in the wind, aggrandizement, but for a different and more honourable object (hear, hear)-at that period And shakes her wings, and will not stay, they knew that he had peremptorily refused I puff the prostitute away" (cheers and laughter) office, rather than enter a cabinet collectively He would not court her by the surrender of pledged against the Catholic question. But his judgment or opinions. If the learned gent.

(Mr. Brougham), who had on the first night of te session identified himself with the Catholic Association, thought he had gained the palm of popularity, he could not congratulate him upon the fancied acquisition. He did not mean to talk lightly of the learned gent.'s support of this question; he could not undervalue the services of such an advocate in any cause which he thought fit to support-his immense talents, his great acquirements, his profound knowledge, his powerful reasoning, must at all times secure him the applause of those for whom he devoted them; but he would prophesy that in thus applying them, he would find he had in the end mistaken his road to fame

66

---stetimus tela aspera contra, Contulimusque manus: experto credite quan

tus

In clypeum assurgat, quo turbine torqueat

hastam."

Differing, then, as be did from the learned gent. as to the Catholic Association; for the sake of the Catholic question itself, he would take his firm stand by the present measure (hear, hear). It was because he thought that all that had been done, had been effected by temporary expedients because they ought to act with circumspection-because they must remove all obstacles to the Catholic question, one by one, for the purpose of recovering public favour to it, that he supported the bill. As one means of that recovery, the removal of the Association was indispensable; and if the Association should remove itself, it would indeed have been beneficial to Ireland, by having given rise to this useful measure.

of the prosecutor. In the other, the house was led to believe that the efforts of the Association, who had ranged themselves above the law-who had confederated-who had clubbed money-who had borne down upon their intended victim with the weight of their united opinion, expressed in a previous debate-they were told that all these efforts had ended-in what? In an unanimous acquittal. But then, said the hon. member for Hertfordshire," it might have been otherwise." Now mark the subtlety-" It might have been otherwise!" To this he would only reply, that had it been otherwise, his view of the present measure might have been otherwise (hear, hear, hear). If, instead of an acquittal, the character of if the storm which blew harmlessly over him, the prisoner had been wrecked by a verdictbecause the law had found him innocent, had overwhelmed him, and he had sunk in the waves of persecution-then, he would have admitted that the existence of the Association was not so safe-that its proceedings were not likely to contribute so largely to the advantage of the Catholic population. And this was all which could be produced from that storehouse of expedients, the Irish office! But he had not yet done with them. One of those cases had been grossly mis-stated by the informants of the rt. hon. Sec. opposite. His advisers had mingled the poison of their own wicked invention with the tales which they poured into his ready and willing ear. After the exposure he was about to make, he should like to see the man who would have front and nerve enough, avowedly to support this measure, without papers, without documents, without the form Mr. Brougham began by regretting that the even of a select committee, or the more odious numerous personal topics introduced into the pretext of a green bag, to lead it on; merely debate, more particularly by the last speaker, because the Irish Sec. had given his word for were attended with this unpleasant conse- its propriety. They were told that 43 magisquence to himself, that whereas the rt. hon. trates had instantly acquitted the prisoner; gent. had entertained the house with those per- and some stress was laid on the respectability sonal anecdotes, which were well known to of their characters; especially that of Mr. chain their attention more than any other de- Blackburn. They were induced to believe scription of address, he was compelled to con- that, with almost the same readiness and fine himself strictly to the measure itself. He unanimity, they had declared that there was stood before them as the defender of the Ca- not the shadow of a charge against the prisoner. tholic Association, as the advocate of the He had read the account of that trial. right of the Irish people to meet, to consult, found that the minority was considerable of to petition, to remonstrate-ay, and to demand those gentlemen who refused to sanction the (cheers); and he would declare his solemn assertion, that there was not the shadow of a opinion, which he hoped would reach the whole charge. He had read the whole of the examinaof Ireland as well as England, that the firmer tions. He found that there was a surprise on and stronger their remonstrances, provided they the prosecutor. Statements were advanced on were peaceable, the greater would be their the trial which had not been made on the exaprospect of success, in obtaining those privi-minations; and others which had been made leges which alone made life desirable. Were were contradicted, and no reason assigned. the complainants to become abject in their suit, they would deservedly prostrate themselves and their cause, and lapse into the contempt which was due to slaves. The house would at once see that he did not mean to blink the question: he took not this course from any love of fleeting popularity, which he knew as well as the rt. hon. gent. how to give the wind to. What were the acts charged against the Association? the first and gravest, was their interference with the administration of justice. Their offences in this way were limited by gentlemen opposite to two cases, in ribs broken, and that horrible mutilations were neither of which had their attempts been suc-effected upon his person; and this was contracessful. In one, it was alleged that the judge who tried the cause praised the conduct of the prisoner; he had also applauded the conduct

He

That prevented a verdict, and a large minority of the magistrates refused to vote that there was no foundation for the charge. But he had more evidence. Since the commencement of this debate, he had seen and conversed with the leading counsel who prosecuted for the murder at Ballybay. It had been as forcibly alleged in this, as in the other case, that there was no foundation whatever for the prosecution. On the trial there was the grossest discrepancy of evidence. One set of witnesses proved that the murdered man was knocked down, his

dicted by the surgeon, who stated that the body had received no direct harm in the fray, the death-blow being given by the fall. The fact

was this:-The prisoners were put upon their was administered in Ireland with the same trial under the deepest and gravest suspicion. decency and impartiality as in England? They One of the witnesses de posed, that another man, had been told by two learned persons, that the whom he should know were he to see him again, courts of justice in Ireland were open to all; but whose name he did not know, nor had he which forcibly reminded him of an observation seen him before, came first up to the deceased of Mr. Horne Tooke's, in reply to a similar and struck him violently, so as to cause his remark respecting the courts of justice in death; and that then the cfficers rushed forward, England. "We are informed," said that acute and mistakingly seized one of the prisoners, who reasoner," that the courts are open to all-so was innocent. Bread and wine were brought is the London Tavern ; but with this difference, to the dead man, and offered to him as he lay that unless you have money to pay, you can on the pavement, dead as a stone, and known have nothing." Another difference distinto be so. On being cross-examined, he was guished the Irish taverns of justice. There, asked if he had ever revealed these circum- as here, the bars of the tavern were open to all stances before? Never. Had he not been cemers; here, however, if a poor man could before the magistrate? Yes. And before the muster a little money, he could walk in and coroner ? Yes. Had he uttered a word of would be served with the same commodity this before either of them? He had not. He which the rich man enjoyed. But at the Irish was the servant of the prisoner's brother, he taverns for law-whether the Weather-cock, was on good terms with his master, and the the Rock or the Bottomless-pit, for such were prisoner and the brother were very well agreed. the names they passed by, they had one comHe was then asked why he had not mentioned modity for the rich, and another for the poor. a word of this before? The judge who tried For this they had better authority than the the cause refused to allow the question to assurances of the two learned gentlemen, be put (loud cries of hear!). He was Lord Redesdale, after serving the office of speaking in the presence of many able law- Chancellor in Ireland, must have known someyers-men who had assisted in as many trials thing of the judges, and enough of the proas there were hairs upon their heads; who ceedings in courts of justice; and it was his were used equally to the difficulties of prose- opinion-that in Ireland there was one law for cuting and defending. He left it to them to the rich, and another law for the poor. Now defend the conduct of that judge, if they for the other charges against the Association. dared. He would notice one extraordinary And, first, for the charge of impudence in omission which he had remarked in all the other words-their acting openly and without speeches of the gentlemen opposite-the name reserve, showing their designs and intentions in of the judge who had presided. He would in the face of day. Now if they had skulked fairness to that learned person naine him, from the public eye, they would have heard though in fairness he would omit that which had the opposite charge, that their designs must be been said of him by an hon, member of that dangerous because they were secret-because house-that it required the likeness of two ani- they did not proclaim their purposes as virmals to describe him: for he had the ferocity tuous innocence always did? Boldness and of one, and the baseness of another, which impudence were now ascribed: then it would the beast of ferocity wanted. That learned have been perfidy and fraud. They were acjudge, was Baron M'Clelland. He had read cused of aping and emulating the forms of over the evidence, and he was not only not satis- Parliament-those solemn and authoritative fied with the acquittal; but his positive opinion, forms which were so often the theme of praise. founded on a statement in an Orange news- Had they done otherwise, would not the charge paper, was that the men had a very lucky have been inverted? They would then have escape. At the same assizes, the Association been accused of daring innovation, of showing had undertaken some proceedings of a defen- in the very order of their proceedings the revosive kind. The learned counsel employed by lutionary spirit of the French Convention, and them in that business, was engaged, when it an envy of its powers. But now-astonishing was called on, in a cause under trial on the impudence !-they encroached upon Parliacivil side of the court. Baron M'Clelland was ment-they borrowed and abused its formsrespectfully entreated to delay the trial till they, who really represented six millions of the prisoner could have the aid of his counsel: people; while the house represented twelve he refused the request. A messenger was then millions, with whom they were perpetually at sent to inform the counsel that the prosecution variance. Then they were self-elected, selfmust proceed. The messenger was prevented constituted, self-regulated, self-adjourned-all by the throng from coming near enough to give of which meant that they did not really reprehim notice. The judge still refused any delay, sent the Catholic population. No; for if they and the man was hurried to trial in this em- did, it would be illegal; if they affected the barrassed state, without the assistance of his situation of delegates, they fell within the counsel, without preparation of any kind. Convention Act: if they elected themselves, When the counsel entered from the other they were not true representatives. How uncourt, the first witness had been examined. fortunate was this body! If they were open, He begged that he might be allowed to cross- they were impudent; if secret, designing. examine. The same judge who had refused to If they found open fault, it was turbulence; if allow the question of cross examination in the they were quiet, there was danger. Did they case of the murder, and by that means rescued pronounce censure or blame? That was disafone prisoner from the fate which hung over fection. Did they praise? That was hypohim, now refused the necessary cross-examina- crisy. Nothing they could say or do would tion of a witness whose word was staked satisfy their opponents, and the bill stated that against the prisoner without any cross-exami- the only way of reconciliation was to destroy nation (hear, hear). The prisoner was con- them altogether. "I don't care," said at non victed, and sentenced to twelve months imprison-member," about the blustering of Ireland, but ment. Should he be told after this, that justice beware," added this alarming logician, "when