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fact of the union and establishment of the Protestant Churches. Up to the latest period at which bills for the relief of the Catholics had been discussed in that house, the belief of the people of England was, that this article of the Union would be a fundamental part of any arrangement that might affect the existing condition of either Church. But within the two years last past, the people of England had seen propositions introduced into the discussions of that house, which were contrary to the principles thus laid down; and questions had been discussed, and divisions had taken place, which had excited-and he spoke with knowledge of the fact when he said so-the greatest alarm in this country, and had resuscitated apprehensions that were previously almost extinct. He would now read certain resolutions that were moved on March 4, 1823. The first was“ That the property of the Church of Ireland, at present in possession of the bishops, deans and chapters of Ireland, is public property, under the control and at the disposal of the legislature, for the support of religion and for such other purposes as Parliament in its wisdom may deem beneficial to the community; due attention being paid to the rights of every person now enjoying any part of that property" (tumultuous cheering). The second resolution was-" That it is expedient to inquire whether the present Church establishment of Ireland be not more than commensurate to the services to be performed, both as regards the number of persons employed, and the incomes they receive; and if so, whether a reduction of the same should not take place, with due regard to all existing interests." The first of these resolutions was negatived without a division; on the second, the numbers were, ayes, 62; noes, 167. Now he would take upon himself to affirm, as a thing which he positively knew, that this departure from what Mr. Grattan thought a necessary preliminary to a chance of a favourable reception for the Catholic question, the spirit, and the degree of that spirit which such proceedings had originated, had been causes of infinite suspicion and jealousy; and had disinclined from all favourable opinion of the question many among those who had but just brought their minds on this subject to a temper-not of opposition (hear, hear). They who thought that Catholic Emancipation was the one thing needful for the salvation of the empire, might also think that it would have been better if the legislature had never been irrevocably pledged to preserve the inviolability of the Church of Ireland. But he would warn those hon. gents. that they must settle that matter not with the House of Commons only, but with the supporters of the Catholic question; and that, before another bill could be introduced into that house for Catholic Emancipation, the movers and seconders of the resolu tions he had referred to must have made up their minds to one of two alternatives—either to renounce those resolutions, or to give up the Catholic question (hear, hear). On this statement he was quite ready to go to issue, and would be content to abide by the event. He was ready to support the Catholic question, but he was determined to resist the spoliation of the Church of Ireland. He was ready to extend to the Catholics all the privileges of other subjects; but that was from the persuasion that it might be possible to maintain both reli
proper range, as it had been limited by the King's Speech, he should have concluded his argument at this point, and should have gone confidently to the vote, on the conviction that the house had even then no choice as to the course it ought to adopt, and which now it was imperatively called upon to adopt, by the information which the hon. bart. had communicated. But though the Catholic question had not been originally part of the debate, yet as it had been made so, it was impossible for him to forbear speaking openly and boldly his sentiments upon it. In stating his conviction that the Catholic question had lately retrograded in the favour of the people of England, he begged to be understood as intimating an opinion that he entertained with great pain and reluctance. But he could see no use in concealment. He thought it better to avow, on all questions, the opinions he might entertain, than to resort to any such concealment; and happy should he be, if, in this instance, they should be found erroneous. One great ground of his painful belief originated from a sentiment that had been most ably and justly expressed by the rt. hon. gent, who concluded the debate of Friday last. The rt. hon. gent. with that sagacity which always enabled him to select the topics that would tell best, either with this house or with the country, had on that occasion, when, for the first time in his life, he opened his lips on the Catholic question, thought it necessary to preface his remarks by stating his staunch adherence, from belief and education, to the church of England (hear, hear). A learned civilian had also taken occasion to assert the same profession of faith. He took this for a proof that those hon. members felt the Established Church of England to be firmly rooted in the affections of the people. Now the same sentiment was deeply rooted in the mind of the late Mr. Grattan, and in every bill that he had ever proposed in favour of the Catholic claims, there was a studious setting forth in the preamble of the conviction of that house that the Churches of England and Ireland were permanent and inviolable: and Mr. Grattan contended, that his bill, so far from shaking either of them, went to confirm their settlement (hear, hear). On this point he would refer to the Act of Union between Great Britain and Ireland—“That it would be fit to propose, as the 5th art. of Union, that the Churches of England and of Ireland shall be united into one Church, and that the doctrine, worship, discipline and government of the said United Church shall be preserved as now by law established for the Church of England, saving to the Church of Ireland all the rights, privileges, and jurisdictions, now thereunto belonging.... which shall be deeme.l and taken to be an essential and fundamental article and condition of the Union." Now, in reference to that article every bill which Mr. Grattan introduced for the relief of the Catholics was framed; and the preamble of the bill of his learned friend (Mr. Plunkett), for a similar purpose, was copied from those of Mr. Grattan. That preamble was in substance thus: "Whereas the Protestant Churches of England and Ireland are established permanently and inviolably....and whereas it would tead to promote the interests of the same, and to strengthen the free constitution of both these Churches in essential parts, to" do so and so: great care being taken always to reseat the
gions together; though he believed it to be impossible to maiptain those resolutions about the Church of Ireland and the Catholic question together (cheers). That that great question had retrograded, he thought he had assigned sufficient reasons to prove. It was his opinion, moreover, that if the Catholic Association were to continue, after the language that had been used in its name, and the intimidations of which it had been made the vehicle, there would be such a resistance in this country to carrying the question, as would, perhaps, be fatal to it. An observation had been made that all that remained to be granted to Ireland, affected only the higher classes of society, and to the lower, therefore, must be matter of indifference. Now, there was no argument that he should be at all times more ready to answer, or that he should, in times past, have felt more eagerness to combat, than the supposition that the lower classes would not be affected by that which regarded the higher--that there was no necessary sympa- | thy between their cases, although the chain that connected them was one of innumerable links (hear, hear). It was true, that what remained to be granted to Ireland, must now be granted to her higher classes; for, by what he considered to be a great mistake in legislation, every thing which Parliament had yet granted in the nature of concession, had been granted to the rabble, as he might say; while it had been carefully withheld from the peer. All that the argument in question went to, was that the miseries of the lower orders of land did not arise from the withholding of this particular boon. It was a question of feeling, simply, and not of fact. He was satisfied that until all classes were admitted to the full participation of all the rights of their fellow-sub-be possibly held out to any man than was at that jects, the great work would never be complete. time extended to him-when he might have These being his opinions, he had to complain of reaped the fruits of the harvest which he had the hon. bart. for imputing it to him as a reproach that he was connected with an adminis- (loud cheers)? But the answer of the Cabinet sown under such discouraging circumstances tration divided on the Catholic question; and being what it was, he at once declined taking for appearing to insinuate, that his conduct office. After these transactions that house adcould only be explained by supposing him to dressed the Throne for a more efficient adminishave been actuated by a love of office. He de- tration; and the negociation was confided to fied the hon. bart. to point out the day, or the Lord Wellesley and himself. month, since 1801, in which his animadversions addressed himself to Lord Grey-he communiwould not have been applicable to any Cabi-cated with Lord Liverpool. This proved that Lord Wellesley net. There had been periods, indeed, in which his opinions, however erroneous, had been conthere had been a general determination to re- sistent. sist all concession to the Catholics; but of such think him wrong in this opinion, but he claimed He did not condemn those who might a Cabinet he had never been a member (cheers). from them the candour of a fair judgment of his To the administration under which the Union acts, when he showed that when he was comtook place, succeeded that of Lord Sidmouth, missioned, not to join, but to frame an adminisof which the late Lord Castlereagh became a tration-not to occupy and conduct the helm of member. Next came Mr. Pitt's administration public affairs, but to distribute those duties to of 1805. It was true, that in respect to Lord others that then, under circumstances which Sidmouth's and Mr. Pitt's administrations there placed him above personal imputation, he was a bond of union, arising from the obstacles would have formed, if he could, an administrato the passing this question, recognized by all tion holding different opinions upon this importheir members, which effectually silenced all tant question, yet agreed upon others which inspeculative differences among individuals who volved the best interests of the community. He concurred in rejecting the question altoge- might have erred in forming this deliberate ther. After the death of Mr. Pitt, the Cabinet judgment as to the best way of composing an of Lord Grenville and Mr. Fox was formed administration; but to the charge of sinister and he was not recapitulating these facts for views and want of integrity, he disdained to the purpose of retorting on hon. gents, oppo- proffer an answer (cheers). Here he must take site the vulgar reproach of "you have done the liberty to complain of a most disingenuous the same;" but of historically proving the posi- use which had been made of his refusal to join tion. In that Cabinet were two persons entirely adverse to the Catholic claims-Lord Sid- to be drawn, that that refusal was a virtual office then, in 1812, and the inference attempted mouth, and the Chief of a Court, in which he pledge, never to enter office until the Cabinet hoped a member of the Cabinet would never be had agreed to move onwards with the Catholic sought again-the Court of King's Bench. Next question. He had refused to come into an ad
came the administrations of the Duke of Port land and of Mr. Perceval; in which some sort of division existed.. The course which he determined to pursue, was adopted in 1812. On the removal of the restrictions from the Regency, he anticipated that his colleagues would have felt themselves as unfettered by former ob stacles as he did; but on applying to the administration, he was informed that the Catholic question would still be refused by the Cabinet. He then took his leave. He next alluded to Mr. Grattan's bill of 1812, and to the motion that he himself then submitted, calling upon Government to take the Catholic question into consideration. While that motion was depending, Mr. Perceval died; and after his death, office was offered to him by the remnant of the Cabinet. He sent but one question-did they They answered they were so determined; and persevere in opposing the Catholic question? he accordingly refused office (cheers). At no period of his life would office have been such a temptation to him. He had been in office before; he had been the author, in a great measure, and in that house the responsible defender of the Spanish war. contests which all the disasters and reverses He had gone through the that attended the commencement of that war called down upon the administration. In 1812, the prospect seemed to brighten-success attended our arms-and the cause which he had so long advocated under less auspicious circumstances, began to promise those triumphant reIre-sults that ultimately crowned it. He would ask every hon. member who had within him the spirit of an English gentleman, and was animated by a heart-felt desire to serve his country. whether greater temptation to take office could
ministration united against the Catholic ques- was that the only sacrifice he had made? Let tion, and if by that refusal he meant to have the house and the country hear him on that said, "I will never enter office until you are point. From the earliest dawn of his public agreed upon this question," what madness was life-ay, from the first visions of his youthful it not in him, within one short fortnight after, to and academic contemplation, there had been have endeavoured to form the sort of mixed one paramount object of his ambition-it was administration which he had described? The his earliest and latest hope-he looked to it case merely required to be stated to carry with with an anxious and ardent glance-before it it its own refutation (hear, hear). These were all other prospects of ambition vanished-in the circumstances which had preceded his mo- comparison with it all the blandishments of tion upon the Catholic question. That motion power, all the rewards and honours of the was carried by a majority, which would to crown-all vanished into nothing before the one object which, through life, had been God he could see again! of 129. The same motion was brought on a fortnight after by Lord dearest to his heart-it was to represent the Wellesley in the House of Lords, when the University in which he had been educated. He Dombers were, 126 against, and 125 in favour was in the fair way of obtaining that highest of it; the measure being only lost by a majo- reward of his labours, when the Catholic quesrity of one. From that time, then, in the year tion crossed his way. He had adhered to his 1812, the Cabinet had gone on acting upon the principles, and thereby forfeited his claim same basis respecting this measure as at pre- (hear, hear). In that loss, he had lost all: sent. To the principle of it he acceded: he when the question came forward, his pledges might err in judgment; but when the principle and his consistency absorbed his thoughts-they complained of in his case had been acted upon came across him just then, and he redeemed for 25 years, why was he alone to be held liable them; but from that hour to this he had never for the whole responsibility? Why was that stated, either in private or in public, the extent point of conduct to be selected to fix upon his of the irretrievable sacrifice which he had character a shadow of imputation, or on his ac- made at the shrine of his honour (loud cheers). tions a suspicion of insincerity (hear, hear)? Was it not a little too much, then, to be taunted He could, however, throw some light upon the and twitted as he had been, for his imputed motive for this selection, for he was perfectly compromise? Therefore let his judgment be In regarding this Catholic quesaware why he had individually become ob- arraigned, but let his honour be acquitted norious to some, at least, of the advocates of that (hear, hear). cause of which he had been the zealous advocate. tion, if it were ever carried-and sure he was It had been uniformly his determination, to in- it would-in his opinion it would never be effected by a cabinet expressly formed for that troduce and support the Catholic question, with out holding any communication with the Catho- purpose. His belief was, that such a cabinet lic body. He had shaped his conduct and ad- would not only fail in its object, but create a If, then, it were Vocated their question, not for their sake alone, flame of discord in the country which it would but for the sake of the empire-not with the be difficult to quench. feelings of a party man, but with those of a carried at all, it could only be done by discuscomprehensive benevolence. This was the rea- sions in that house, leading to parliamentary son why he was singled out for attack-be- decisions, which would operate upon the cause his doctrine had been, that when any sect Government, not so much as a deliberative had a grievance to complain of, that it was for body, but as one consenting to and abiding by Parliament to consider the case, and decide the decision of the Parliament. It had been imwhat they ought to give or withhold, and that puted to him individually, with too flattering a it was for the petitioners to receive the measure notion of his influence, that he had the means He of carrying his view of this question into of redress which was provided for them. had always denied to such parties the privilege effect. He was certainly at perfect liberty in Whether be of stipulating and meting out for themselves office, as well as out of it, to move the question the relief with which they would be satisfied, whenever he pleased to do so. and of dictating to Parliament the terms of ad- did so while in office-whether he did so out of justing their claims. Both principle and ex-office-whether in either case he should move perience had taught him to exercise and deter- it at all-was a consideration which he remine his actions upon his own reflection and served for his own discretion. Imputations or judgment, and not to be led, governed or re-appeals to him would in this view be made in strained by theirs (hear, hear). He had many vain; he would hold the rein over his own apologies to offer for thus intruding his private guidance, and not be driven from his course To (hear, hear). He had been asked whether he feelings upon their attention (cheers). be thus taupted with a want of feeling for had no desire for popularity. The man who the claims of the Catholics-to be charged disregarded it would be unfit for office in a with truckling to a compromise of their rights country which boasted a popular constitution -to hear this constantly insinuated against him (hear, hear). He had encountered too often the vicissitudes of public life not to bear unby those who owed him gratitude for his services in their cause-was a species of treat- popularity without fear; but he desired, like ment which called upon tameness itself to all men, if he could, to retain popularity vindicate its claims. He had told them, that honourably. His motto was laudo manentem, in 1812, at that period when he would have and he should add, in the language of Dryden"I can enjoy her while she's kind; given ten years of life for two years of office, Bot for any sordid or mean purpose of selfish But when she dances in the wind, aggrandizement, but for a different and more honourable object (hear, hear)—at that period And shakes her wings, and will not stay, they knew that he had peremptorily refused I puff the prostitute away" (cheers and laughter) office, rather than enter a cabinet collectively He would not court her by the surrender of pledged against the Catholic question. But his judgment or opinions. If the learned gent.
(Mr. Brougham), who had on the first night of te session identified himself with the Catholic Association, thought he had gained the palm of popularity, he could not congratulate him upon the fancied acquisition. He did not mean to talk lightly of the learned gent.'s support of this question; he could not undervalue the services of such an advocate in any cause which he thought fit to support-his immense talents, his great acquirements, his profound knowledge, his powerful reasoning, must at all times secure him the applause of those for whom he devoted them; but he would prophesy that in thus applying them, he would find he bad in the end mistaken his road to fame
46stetimus tela aspera contra, Contulimusque manus: experto credite quan
In clypeum assurgat, quo turbine torqueat hastam."
Differing, then, as he did from the learned gent. as to the Catholic Association; for the sake of the Catholic question itself, he would take his firm stand by the present measure (hear, hear). It was because he thought that all that had been done, had been effected by temporary expedients because they ought to act with circumspection because they must remove all obstacles to the Catholic question, one by one, for the purpose of recovering public favour to it, that he supported the bill. As one means of that recovery, the removal of the Association was indispensable; and if the Association should remove itself, it would indeed have been beneficial to Ireland, by having given rise to this useful measure.
of the prosecutor. In the other, the house was led to believe that the efforts of the Association, who had ranged themselves above the law-who had confederated-who had clubbed money-who had borne down upon their intended victim with the weight of their united opinion, expressed in a previous debate-they were told that all these efforts had ended-in what? In an unanimous acquittal. But then, said the hon. member for Hertfordshire," it might have been otherwise." Now mark the subtlety-" It might have been otherwise!" To this he would only reply, that had it been otherwise, his view of the present measure might have been otherwise (hear, hear, hear). If, instead of an acquittal, the character of if the storm which blew harmlessly over him, the prisoner had been wrecked by a verdictbecause the law had found him innocent, had overwhelmed him, and he had sunk in the waves of persecution-then, he would have admitted that the existence of the Association was not so safe-that its proceedings were not likely to contribute so largely to the advantage of the Catholic population. And this was all which could be produced from that storehouse of expedients, the Irish office! But he had not yet done with them. One of those cases had been grossly mis-stated by the informants of the rt. hon. Sec. opposite. His advisers had mingled the poison of their own wicked invention with the tales which they poured into his ready and willing ear. After the exposure he was about to make, he should like to see the man who would have front and nerve enough, avowedly to support this measure, without papers, without documents, without the form even of a select committee, or the more odious pretext of a green bag, to lead it on; merely because the Irish Sec. had given his word for its propriety. They were told that 43 magis trates had instantly acquitted the prisoner ; and some stress was laid on the respectability of their characters; especially that of Mr. Blackburn. They were induced to believe that, with almost the same readiness and unanimity, they had declared that there was not the shadow of a charge against the prisoner. He had read the account of that trial. He found that the minority was considerable of those gentlemen who refused to sanction the assertion, that there was not the shadow of a charge. He had read the whole of the examinations. He found that there was a surprise on the prosecutor. Statements were advanced on the trial which had not been made on the exa
Mr. Brougham began by regretting that the numerous personal topics introduced into the debate, more particularly by the last speaker, were attended with this unpleasant consequence to himself, that whereas the rt. hon. gent. had entertained the house with those personal anecdotes, which were well known to chain their attention more than any other description of address, he was compelled to confine himself strictly to the measure itself. He stood before them as the defender of the Catholic Association, as the advocate of the right of the Irish people to meet, to consult, to petition, to remonstrate-ay, and to demand (cheers); and he would declare his solemn opinion, which he hoped would reach the whole of Ireland as well as England, that the firmer and stronger their remonstrances, provided they were peaceable, the greater would be their prospect of success, in obtaining those privi-minations; and others which had been made leges which alone made life desirable. Were were contradicted, and no reason assigned. the complainants to become abject in their That prevented a verdict, and a large minority suit, they would deservedly prostrate them- of the magistrates refused to vote that there selves and their cause, and lapse into the con- was no foundation for the charge. But he had tempt which was due to slaves. The house more evidence. Since the commencement of would at once see that he did not mean to this debate, he had seen and conversed with blink the question: he took not this course the leading counsel who prosecuted for the from any love of fleeting popularity, which he murder at Ballybay. It had been as forcibly knew as well as the rt. hon. gent. how to give alleged in this, as in the other case, that there the wind to. What were the acts charged against was no foundation whatever for the prosecution. the Association? the first and gravest, was On the trial there was the grossest discrepancy their interference with the administration of of evidence. One set of witnesses proved justice. Their offences in this way were that the murdered man was knocked down, his limited by gentlemen opposite to two cases, in ribs broken, and that horrible mutilations were neither of which had their attempts been suc-effected upon his person; and this was contracessful. In one, it was alleged that the judge who tried the cause praised the conduct of the prisoner; he had also applauded the conduct
dicted by the surgeon, who stated that the body had received no direct harm in the fray, the death-blow being given by the fall. The fact
was this:-The prisoners were put upon their was administered in Ireland with the same