They are safe under ground, pressed hard down by big heaps of stones, that we have paid for to be placed over them in the shape of monuments of honour, voted by this very House of Commons; and shall we be refused a general inquiry into abuses, lest something should come out about these men, who have cost us such immense sums, dead as well as living? What good" can it do? Why, very great good indeed; for, it will enable us to form a correct judgment of the character and the deeds of these men, who enjoyed so much power, and for opposing whose measures and attacking whose characters and conduct so many of the people of this kingdom were so severely punished. There are, moreover, enough and enough living, and these, too, men in great power, who were actors with them; who participated in all their public conduct; and, because the former are dead, are the latter to escape the effects of inquiry? Inquiry may redound to their honour; but, why object to it then? -There is no occasion to say any thing more about it. The thing is too plain to be misunderstood by any but downright ideots. -SIR JOHN ANSTRUTHER, the late Chief Justice in India, opposed Lord Folkestone's motion, as did also MR. GEORGE PONSONBY, a part of whose speech, as given in the Statesman news-paper, is too interesting to us not to be inserted here. After stating his objections, upon the ground of the general and loose tendency of the motion, he said: “ I find it impossible, on the occasion "of so extraordinary a proposition, to con"tent myself with a silent vote, and more "especially when I see a disposition in some persons, not in the House, to charge every public man in the kingdom with corrup"tion. This is a charge of a most serious "nature; and particularly when it is con"sidered how readily and with what avidity every thing that is charged against "this House is received out of doors. The "people are even industriously told in some places that there is no distinction whatever “ in this House, that we are all knaves and "rogues alike (Hear! hear! hear!) "that it does not signify in what hands the government is placed; for, provided they are Parliamentary, the country can expect "nothing but corruption. (Hear! hear! "hear!) These, Sir, are most foul, impudent, barefaced, and infamous calumnies; "for, I will venture to maintain, that there "are in this House, men as honest, as up" right, as uncorrupt, and possessing as great integrity as those who make these gross and "unfounded charges. And, be he who he 66 66 ર 66 66 may, I do assert and maintain, that he is "not an honester public man than I am, nor "do I see the smallest reason why I, or any other member of this House, should "hesitate for one moment to repel this un“merited and general stigma. My con"duct has already proved, in numerous instances, that in all matters of public economy and reformation of abuses, I am disposed to go as far in the protection of "the people against extravagance and "abuse as any man in this country-and "I am still disposed to persevere in that "conduct, which I conceive to be only a "faithful discharge of my duty to the pub"lic. 66 But to the motion now before the "House I cannot agree."No; Mr. Ponsonby; no, we do not, indeed we do not say, that you are "all knaves and rogues alike." There is not a man in the whole nation, who, as far as I have observed, has ever said any such thing. Indeed, Sir, you must have been misinformed; and, I really wonder how any one should have induced you to believe any such thing, when the people, in all parts of the kingdom, are passing Resolutions, thunking 125 of the members of the House of Commons for their fidelity to their trust. -No, Sir, indeed we do not say, or think (God forbid we should !) that all members of parliament are alike; but, I will tell you what we do say, what all of us, except those who share in the corruptions, say, and believe, and shall continue to say and to believe; that to us-ward, both PARTIES are as much alike as two peas, or two drops of water; that the promises and pledges, which the late ministry and their adherents, made to us, while they were out of place, they not only forgot the moment they were in place, but laughed us to scorn for expecting that they would fulfil them; that they, who had gained the support of the people by deprecating a waste of the public money, the making of sacrifices for the king's foreign possessions, an employment of foreign troops in the heart of this kingdom, the heavy weight of taxation, and the predominating influence of the crown; that these very men, of whom you were one, did, during the very first session of parliament after their elevation to power, bring in a bill, which bill was passed into a Law, to enable Lord Grenville to hold the Office of Auditor of the Exchequer, a sinecure of 4,000l. a year, along with the place of the First Lord of the Treasury, at 6,000l. a year; that they settled large pensions upon Mrs. Fox and her daugh bour to make converts to my doctrine! but, alas! I laboured in vain. Well; the consequences are now come and coming thick and fast. A sincere and radical reform then would have prevented what has taken place now; and, a sincere and radical reform now would prevent what, without that reform, will take place at no distant day, as sure as this is ink, wherein I am placing my opinions upon this paper.--Now, Sir, as to your own character and conduct, of which, if the reporter be correct, you thought proper to speak, I have never heard, or said, either harm or good of you; and, in fact, all that I know, relating to you, is, that you were for about fifteen or sixteen months, Lord Chancellor of Ireland, since which time you have received, out of the taxes, and are to continue to receive for that service, a pension of four thousand pounds ster ters; that they declared, that they would, advise the king never to make a peace, of which the restoration of Hanover to him should not be a condition; that they augmented the then large numbers of German and other foreign troops; that they, who had so solemnly protested against the Income Tax, made its weight upon us nearly double what Pitt had left it; that they screwed up the assessed taxes to the highest degree, and that they attempted to send an exciseman into the house of every creature in the kingdom who had the means of brewing a cag of ale to make merry at the christening of a child; and, that they closed their carcer by withdrawing from parliament, a Bill which they themselves had brought in under a solemn declaration of its necessity to the tranquillity and safety of the kingdom, and which they withdrew for the reason, openly avowed, that the said billing a year.—Frankly I tell you, that I am was not approved of by the king.Now, Sir, these facts are undeniable. They admit of no palliation. And, with these facts before us, can we be blamed if we despise those, who would still persuade us to have confidence in party?-Sir, in 1804, when there was a sort of coalition intrigue geing on for the purpose of jostling the Addingtons out, I sat up part of a night (a thing which I have not done ten times in my life) to write a Letter to warn those with whom you have since been in power, of their danger, and of the danger to the state, which would arise from any unprincipled compromise. In that letter, which was shown to Mr. Fox, Mr. Francis, and others, I pointed out the consequences of a failure, on the part of that party, to fulfil the public expectations. I remember saying: if you go on, or attempt to go on, in the old litt track, George Rose and Huskisson will beat you hollow. I remember those very words, or words nearly the same. And, was not that the case? Did they not beat you hollow, sir? Did they not laugh at you? Then, I said, that, if such a thing was attempted, it would disgust the people, who would lose all confidence in both parties, and who would very soon see the necessity of flying for protection to other men; very likely to Sir Francis Burdett, and to many men not yet known in the political world. I appeal to Mr. Francis, who told me that he had read the letter, whether it did not contain almost these very words. I mention this to shew, that I have not been capricious in my opinions. I, in that letter, urged the absolute necessity of a change of system. How anxiously I did la discontented at this; that it is one amongst the many many charges, which, I think, we ought not, at any time, and especially in times like these, to be obliged to bear; that, seeing that the late ministry did, in their going out, as well as in their coming in and during their abidance, in power, act, towards the people, just as the present ministers do, I like one set of ministers just as well as the other; and that, unless a change of system were to take place with a change of men, I even dread a change of men, because, at every change, under, the present system, new and heavy burdens in consequence of such change, are invariably laid upon the people. - MR. CANNING's speech and the account of the division must be reserved for my next. That speech was in the strain of MR. TIERNEY'S; but, it merits particular notice.-There are also some observations yet to be made upon that part of Mr. Perceval's speech which contains the very novel doctrine, that, in order to prevent future crimes past crimes are not to be punished.-In the mean while, I cannot refrain from inserting, below, an admirable article from the TIMES news-paper of the 19th instant, upon the subject of this debate. Botley, 20th April, 1809. N. B. All the RESOLUTIONS, &c. which have been obligingly sent me, from different places, shall be regularly serted as fast as I can find room. FROM THE TIMES, 19th APRIL, 1809. "The decision upon Lord FOLKESTONE'S motion is one of the most politic, funda mentally (though for different reasons than those which were alledged), that could possibly have taken place. A general inquiry, rigorously conducted, into the disposal of offices, might perhaps have led to several unpleasant discoveries, which it was therefore by all means useful to avoid; and both parties seemed to be very strongly impressed with this idea. We heard no more of courting inoniryof challenging publicity; one sacrifice has been unluckily made to this bragging humour, and that will serve as a warning to those who remain-But the principle upon which the proposed inquiry was ostensibly smothered, seems to be a very singular one, and to most apprehensions might with greater reason have been urged in favour of the prosecution of it. "General suspicions of the integrity of "men in power are every where preva"lent; and therefore we will not institute "a general but a specific inquiry." Now this does appear to us to be much the same kind of reasoning as if a ship-captain, having great reason to suspect the universal sea-worthiness of his vessel, should still chuse to examine only this cable or that anchor. The fact is, and it is stated by both parties, that suspicions are indeed, general enough: Mr. CANNING says, that public men are represented" as having nothing in view but the "emolument of office," and that there is a " persuasion alive in the public mind, "that rottenness and corruption exists in every part of the state." But if such is the allowed persuasion, how is it to be eradicated? By prohibiting inquiry into the truth of it? No! this is only increasing the suspicion, and rendering improvement hopeless. That the emoluments of office have some influence over the minds of those who accept them, is clear; because we see them, upon their very acceptance, bargaining for lucrative resignations, for accessory sinecures, for pensions for their mothers, sisters, sons, and nephews; and to say that this love of the public money is so nicely circumscribed that it will only tempt men to do dirty actions, but can in no case prevail on them to commit dishonest ones, seems to be drawing a very nice line of distinction. Besides, who are they that tell us that the public suspicions are altogether unfounded? Why, the very men who assured us that there were no abuses in the Commander in Chief's office and look how much this illustrious person has been injured by them. In his case, say they, "suspicions exist, 66 " and therefore examine into the grounds "of them you cannot make the Inquiry "too public.' But now observe how their tono is alterel, and how much wiser they are become by experience: "Suspicions," say they again, "exist, and therefore don't enquire into them at all; it only keeps alive the public ferment." Yet surely if an experiment was to have been made, a less exalted personage might have been chosen as the subject of it; and such we believe is the loyalty of this kingdom, that most people will regret that his wings have been singed, on finding that those who thrust him into the flame are resolved not to come within smell of the smoke. But these are among the misfortunes that attend men of no party. It was a gricvous damage that his ROYAL HIGHNESS SUffered by that detested pamphlet published in the course of last summer. And while we are speaking of the dangers which thus attend men of no party, we shall venture to add further, that if Colonel Wardle, who possesses that character, had six months ago confessed himself to have of fered East India patronage for a seat in Parliament, such would have been the virtuous indignation of that Assembly, that he would never have sat long enough therein to have preferred his charges: nay, if under an imputation of this kind he had ventured to hint the slightest suspicion against any man in office, there would have been such a cry raised against him, as would have stunned us all; so that he had better look to himself in future. "If they can catch him once upon the hip, "They will feed fat the ancient grudge they bear "him." Something, too, has been said of the malignity with which public men are assailed; but do public men never assail others with malignity? Who first applied the odious term of infamy to an hypothetical failure in proving an honest accusation? A public man. Who branded his fellow-subjects with the accursed appellation of Jacobins? A public man. Who cheered him with applauses, that might be heard from Westminster to Guildhall? Public men. And what has been the consequence? that the expressions" un"worthy of confidence," corrupt," venal," have been re-echoed upon public men from Guildhall to Westminster. Who they are that have suffered most by this foolish warfare, they too well feel that first complain.-That there is a considerable ferment in the public mind, it is im possible to deny; and that it will be kept alive by inquiry, we fully concede to those who assert it; for it is the discovery of corruption, and not of purity, that has produced the ferment: and the same cause which first provoked is most likely to encrease it. But are not the ebullitions of anger preferable to the gloom of despair? From a prosecuted inquiry, what can ensue but the detection of offenders? From a stifled one, nothing but the indiscriminate confusion of the innocent and guilty. It has been said, that such a Committee as that which was moved for is unprecedented. Are not the grounds of suspicion unprecedented? Who would have ever thought of such discoveries as have been recently brought to light? When was it ever declared by a resolution of the Body Corporate of London, that a variety of abuses discovered, formed only a part of a wicked and corrupt system long acted upon;" "that the "management of public affairs was in the "hands of the greatest pensioners and re"versionists in the kingdom:" "that a pernicious influence existed, corrupting " and undermining the free principles of "the British Constitution." Let any man look at the important place which the proceedings of that Body occupy in the pages of even our most compendious histories, and then let him say whether such a resolution ought to be passed by unheeded. 66 66 REPORT RELATING TO THE DUTCH COM MISSIONERS. Your Committee, having derived from the Minutes of Evidence and Proceedings of the Committees on Public Expenditure of the preceding Sessions referred to them by the House, some material information respecting the establishment and the transactions of the Commissioners for the Sale, Management, and Disposal of Dutch Property, captured or detained on the occasion of the commencement of hostilities with Holland, in consequence of its invasion by the French, have pursued the investigation of that subject, and proceed to report upon it.—The Commissioners, who were five in number, were appointed in 1795 under the authority of the 21st clause of the 35th Geo. 3. c. 80; and their Commission, after reciting in the words of the Act, that "the Cargoes of Dutch Ships, detained or brought in, might perish or be greatly injured if some provision was not made respecting the same, authorizes the Commissioners to take such Ships and I Difcomats, 4 Cargoes under their care, and to manage, sell, and dispose of the same according to such Instructions as they should from time to time receive from the King in Conncil."-The Lords of the Privy Council in their Instructions dated 13 June 1795, direct the Commissioners generally as to the conduct of their transactions, and require them to keep minutes of all their proceedings, and to " keep accounts in such form as the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury shall direct or approve." No instructions appear to have proceeded from the Board of Treasury, and the Commissioners represent themselves to have undertaken their office, without having come to any understanding with any branch of the government respecting the manner of deriving their Compensation for their Services, or the amount of it.-They state, that they were charged with the investigation of numerous claims to British and neutral property found in the detained and captured vessels, and, in many cases acted in a judicial character in this respect; that they received a separate and special commission to take the management of sundry Dutch vessels brought into Ireland; that they had to make arrangements with the East India Company respecting cargoes directed to be sold by the Company at their own sales; that they had to adjust many complicated accounts with their agents at the outports, and to settle the wages of the officers and crews both of the vessels of which the cargoes were sold by the East India Company, and of those which were intrusted altogether to their own management, and to be for some time extremely difficult that they found the duties of their office and laborious. They observe however, that their sales ceased, and their transactions were nearly brought to a close in July 1799, but that the final adjustment of them had been protracted partly by "small sales of remnants not completed till Nov. 1801," partly by some miralty not adjudged till July 1803," property claimed in the Court of Adpartly by executor of the late King's Proctor, of "unsettled accounts with the which the balance was not paid till Jan. last," but chiefly by an important lawsuit commenced in 1797, which brought into question property to the amount of about 180,000l. The suit has within these few months terminated in their favour, and the Commissioners now expect that in the course of the ensuing summer they shall close their transactions, and deliver in 977,269 mated net sum of -The chief part of the balance now in hand is invested in government or other securities, which run at interest. The sum of 900,000l. has been paid at sundry periods to government, and having been carried to the account of the Consolidated Fund, has been applied to the purposes prescribed by parliament. Your Committee now proceed to offer some Observations on a variety of points to which their attention has been called, referring to the Appendix for a more detailed account of some of the circumstances which they shall notice.-It has been already mentioned, that no agreement in respect to the mode or amount of remuneration was made at the time when the Commissioners were appointed. The difficulty of ascertaining beforehand the degree of trouble to be incurred, and the nature of the duties to be performed, may form, in some cases, a sufficient motive for suspending the determination of both the amount and manner of an allowance. But no circumstances have appeared which furnish a justification of the delay of no less than 14 years, which in this instance has taken place. It belonged to the government, after the lapse of a moderate period, to take up the consideraation of the remuneration due to the Commissioners, with a view to its being submitted to parliament; and when the subject had manifestly escaped attention, the Commissioners ought to have given notice of the omission. But they have to this day held no communication with any branch of the government on this question. Under these circumstances they had, in the judgment of your Committee, no right to appropriate any sums to themselves as compensation; indeed the terms of their Cominission, already quoted, direct them to dispose of the Dutch Property intrusted to them only" according to such Instructions as they should receive from the King in Council," and the Instructions accordingly given, since they merely authorize allowances to crews in payment of wages, do not appear to your Committee in any degree to sanction such application of their funds. The 26th clause of 35 Geo. 3, authorizes the payment of" the Expences of the Sales out of the Proceeds," but the term "Expences" cannot, in the judg ment of your Committee, be construed to include the payment of remuneration to the Commissioners, since neither the mode nor the amount of it had been sanctioned by the government.-It appears, however, that the Commissioners, at a very early period, proceeded both to determine in the first instance for themselves the rate of compensation dne, and also actually to apply it to their own use, mending to make mention of this point only on the final settlement of their affairs, though they have from time to time had to communicate with the secretary of the Treasury on other matters, and have transmitted to the Lords of the Privy Council some general statements. The Compensation which they have taken has been a commission of 5 per cent. on the gross produce of the Sales, a subject on which your Committee will offer some further Remarks toward the conclusion of this Report. It has been charged on the princi ple of a mercantile transaction; but it is here observable, that they have deviated from the custom of merchants, by taking large sums for commission before they had either received or paid over the whole net proceeds of the cargoes, on the gross produce of which the commission was charged, and also before they had rendered up their accounts.--Your committee deem it necessary to animadvert on the length of time which has been suffered to elapse without rendering any regular accounts, and without their being called for by the government.-The chief object of examination in such cases is the detection and rectification of errors, and the recovery of sums improperly withheld from the public; but when any considerable period has passed, the elucidation of accounts is rendered difficult, as your Committee |