chasers of public lands, for many years succes- remaining three-fourths of the consideration. sively, for indulgence, and that laws had been Under the most auspicious circumstances, repeatedly passed, exempting from forfeiture some of the purchasers must unavoidably lands which had been purchased on credit, become delinquent. But if misfortune or ca and for which the purchasers had failed punc- lamity should fall on the public debtor, or the tually to pay. This kind of indulgence had currency should become deranged, or the seaalmost become a matter of course. It had sons unpropitious, or the market for agricultu been extended, with a few exceptions, annu- ral products dull or unprofitable, how would ally, for more than ten years. He believed it the debt be punctually discharged? But, said had never been refused, and he doubted wheth-he, add to these considerations the exorbitant er it ever would be. A bill had been engrossed prices which the advantages of credit tempt this morning, extending the indulgence one the speculator to promise, (which is the most year longer, and it is obvious that a similar fruitful source of accumulation) and which it law must pass at the next session, and for is impossible that he can ever pay, and how inmany consecutive years, or the debtors for the evitable is the growth of the land debt? It public lands must be subjected to great dis- must continue to increase as long as credit shall tress, and many of them to ruin. Mr. Robert- be given. son said that he did not wish to be under- Such a system, said he, liable to so many stood as intimating that the indulgencies here- contingencies, must be intrinsically defective. tofore given were unnecessary or improper; on It could not long be continued in operation, the contrary, he was sure that they had been without defeating the ends of its institution. proper, and that it would be necessary to re- It could not be executed. He would not say. new them. But he thought that that policy if persisted in, it would eventually create a must be unwise which subjected the national debt so large that it never could be paid. But, legislature and the people to such vexatious he would say, and was bound to believe, that embarrassments, and that any system which the debt would become so much augmented, required such temporary and mitigating expe- that its entire collection would be difficult, redients in its operation, must be radically defective. The necessity of continued indulgence indicated very clearly the necessity of changing the system which produced it. Indeed, said he, every argument that has been or could be urged in favor of indulgence, tends strongly to show the propriety of refusing, in future, that credit which has rendered such arguments proper and necessary.

mote, doubtful and perilous. And he should not attempt to disguise his apprehension that it never would be entirely collected; or, if collected, that it would be under circumstances which would prove that it would have been better that it had never been either contracted or coerced. He felt compelled to believe, that if the credit system be continued much longer, the government would necessarily lose a great part of the proceeds of sales, or would have to secure them at the expense of the best interests of the Union.

He said that he had frequently heard it stated, and his friend from Tennessee, (Mr. Jones) had reiterated, that the accumulation of the debt for the public lands, and the inability He was unable to perceive how such a diof the debtors to discharge it. resulted from lemma could be avoided. The people could temporary and accidental causes, and that it is not pay the debt now due; that debt must innot probable that the indulgence thereby ren-crease; the causes are permanent, and the effects dered necessary would long be required.

inevitable. When, and how, he asked, would He would not, he said, enter into an exami- it be collected? If it will be difficult or imposnation of those circumstances alluded to by the sible to collect twenty-two million, how much gentleman in support of that opinion, because more difficult will it be to collect, with safety, their character rendered a minute investigation one hundred million? Will you refuse further of them unnecessary. He thought it easily indulgence, and thereby subject the land to fordemonstrable, that the causes of the accumu- feiture? Then, passing by other consequences, lation of the debt were neither accidental nor you distress and ruin many of the purchasers; temporary; they existed in the nature of the and, in that event, it will have been unfortu system, and would continue to produce their | nate for them that you gave them credit. If. results, as long as it should be kept in opera-you refuse indulgence, confusion, disaffection, tion. The circumstances mentioned by the and oppression will follow; if you grant it, the gentlemen may have had some influence on the government loses revenue. Gentlemen might extent of the increase, but, if they had never choose their alternative. But it is certainly tho occurred, the debt would have grown, and in- province of an enlighted policy to prevent this dulgence have been necessary. The debt had dilemma, when it might be possible, by opporbeen gradually accumulated for many years-tune interposition. This, he thought, is now in good times, and in bad times, and under all circumstances.

It could not reasonably be expected that a man, who should be able to pay only the first installment for a tract of land, could transplant himself and family in the Western wilds, open a farm, build his houses, support his family, and be able in four years, to save, by the cultivation of the soil, as much as would pay the

practicable; but no one could say how long it would be so. And if, by such interposition, the government should sell its lands for 34 cents per acre less, (the difference between, cash payments under the two systems) it will be more than compensated, by certainly in getting the whole amount of sales.

Mr. Robertson said, that it was useless to talk to him of the security the government pos

sessed, by holding the title to the land. This speculations, in fraud of the government, and security is only nominal; for while, by holding to the injury of the poor. Look, said he, to it, with a heavy and ruinous debt impending Alabama. What, but credit, was the cause of over your land debtors, you keep them comparatively in a state of dependence and tenancy, you will, at the same time, be unable or unwilling to evict them, and sell their houses to hungry speculators and strangers. But, if you should so sell, it would be an event that might be deeply felt, and long deplored.

the exorbitant prices bid there for land, or of the great speculations that had been made there or attempted? Would not many, who purchased there, be unable to pay? Was not the magnitude of that debt alarming? He did not, he said, wish to pursue this part of the subject; he had no doubt he was sufficiently understood.

The home of a freeman, said he, is dear to his heart. It is sacred; it is the centre of his Mr. Robertson here observed, that the obaffections and of his happiness; it is the sanc-jections to the credit system, which had most tuary of his wife and children. It is conse- influence with him, were of a character differcrated by being his home, and often endeared ent from those which were merely financial or to him by being the birth-place of his little personal, and of infinitely more consequence ones. Will you venture, for a paltry consider- in view of wise policy and enlightened patriation, to tear this from him, and thereby strike otism. They grew out of the moral and politinto wild and discordant commotion, all those ical tendencies of credit between the people tender strings? He felt, he said, that he was and their government. This was, he said, an touching a delicate subject, on which it would embarrassing topic; but his duty would not be painful to dilate. He would, therefore, not excuse its pretermission. He could not avoid pursue it, but content himself by having hint-it. It lay across his way. He should, thereed at it, with barely opening the door to the fore, give his opinion in regard to it without view of some of the consequences that would disguise.

attend the credit system.

History, and a knowledge of the nature of Mr. Robertson said, that all his observation republican government, proved, that the relaand experience taught him to believe that any tion of creditor and debtor, ought not to exist permanent system of credit, national or indi-between the government and the people. It vidual, is pernicious. It is unnatural and se- begets obligations, and interests, and feelings, ductive, and had generally brought on those incompatible with the genius of free institu concerned in its operations, distress, and not tions. If the citizen must stand in that relaunfrequently ruin. It is nationally a Pandora's tion to his government, it is best that he should box. What else, he asked, was more fruitful of be the creditor. If he stand in the attitude of the distress with which the people of the debtor, his interest may not be the interest of United States are now so much afflicted? the government, and his feelings may not alAnd what else is the cause of the magnitude of ways be in accordance with his duty. But, the land debt, and its concomitant embarrass- the objections to such a relation are multiplied ments? Would not the people now be in a bet- and strengthened when it is permitted to exist ter condition, if it had never been incurred? between the government and an entire commuAnd would not the Western country, particu- nity, or a large portion of the whole populalarly, be more prosperous and independent, if tion. It is then that the government may be credit had never been given on the public compelled to feel its own impotency, and the lands? Would it not be, in relation to the gen- supremacy of those passions which it was ineral government, out of debt? stituted to control; and it is then that it may be in danger of degenerating into a government of men, and not of laws; of passions, and not of principles; of arbitrary force, and not of enlightened public opinion.

But, in addition to the objections he had mentioned, he said there were many others to the land credit. It deceived and embarrassed the purchaser. It compelled him frequently to promise too high a price for his land; it. He said, that it had been very seldom the tempted him to go beyond his means; it policy of governments to encourage or permit placed the occupant in the power of the non- this odious and dangerous relation permanentresident speculator, and subjected the pur-ly; and most of those that ever did, had left chasers, of every descripiton, to the control of striking memorials of its impolicy. In Great circumstances which they could not foresee or Britain it exists to a great extent; and there, it avert, to the caprice of fortune, and to the is true, it is not deprecated by those who admercy of government. minister the government, but is considered by The purchaser, said he, if there were no them the bulwark of the constitution. It for credit, would not have to complain of the vi-tifies that government, by making it the intertiated paper currency, nor to reproach the gov-est of the opulent and influential to maintain ernment with refusing to receive of him such it. In this mercenary way, public sentiment depreciated paper as he had been compelled, is stifled, and instead of being endangered, in his transactions, to receive; nor would the the government is almost impregnably encapitalist be able to unhouse the poor man, trenched behind wealth and aristocracy. with family, who had enhanced the value of Therefore, in England, the public debt is conthe soil by improvements, and who, without sidered by many a public blessing. his fault, had become unable to pay the whole price for it punctually; nor would the cars of Congress be assailed with reports of nefarious

But, for the same reasons, he believed that, in free governments, it would be considered the greatest curse. What would be the condition

of England, if, instead of being the debtor, she But he was an unsafe guardian of the constiwas the creditor of her snbjects? Who would tution, who would do or permit to be done, then be the ministerial champion? Who would while he could prevent it, anything that might then preserve the government from revolution? provoke any attempt, or even inclination, to Mr. Robertson said, that he did not mean towards its destruction. Mr. Robertson said he argue that the creation of a large land debt felt devoted to Western interests, and had would eventuate in the disruption of our hap-great confidence in Western virtues, moral and py confederacy; but its tendencies would be political; but, on a national question, which towards disunion. If, said he, in England, it should be decided on national principles, he is necessary to the existence of the govern- would be guilty of incivism if he were to act ment, that it should be deeply indebted to its under the influence of local or sectional feelsubjects, he would submit it to serious consid-ings. He was not so Godwinian in his opinion eration, whether, in the United States, the of human nature, nor so Utopian in his politiUnion would be strengthened or cemented by permitting the citizens to be largely indebted to the government?

If, in England, the indebtedness of the people to the government would endanger its stability, would it be wise or safe to maintain the converse of the proposition here?

cal principles, as to legislate on the supposed perfectability of the one, or practical infallibility of the others. Legislation should be adapted to men and things as they are, and every legislator should regard the passions, as well as the virtue of human nature. Why is it, said he, that manners govern laws? Why was it that Solon, when asked whether his laws were as perfect as he could make them, replied, that they were as good as the people would bear?

He thought no argument could be derived from the peculiar character of the American institutions or people, sufficiently strong to render it prudent policy here, to encourage or permit a large body of the community to be- Mr. Robertson said, that the people of the come largely indebted to the government. On West are attached to the general government; the contrary, he believed that a practical or he did not wish to see that attachment alienphilosophical view of the peculiar contexture ated. They are patriotic, and he did not wish of the American institutions, would show that to have that patriotism chilled by any system such an experiment would be as dangerous of public policy, which, he feared, if persisted here as elsewhere. In this free country, said Mr. R., public opinion is the substratum of the political fabric, and the attachment and confidence of the people constitute the cement which increases its strength and preserves its symmetry.

Without the support of the first, the whole superstructure is prostrate; forfeit the last, and the fairest and most sacred temple of liberty on earth is in dilapidation. It is not indestructable, and depends more on moral than political principles.

in, might have that effect. Their feelings, said he, are with the Union. Do not provoke indifference; do not excite their jealousies or their fears, but encourage their confidence by deserving it. Then, indeed, they would always be found among the first in your councils and in your fields. Then do not weaken, but strengthen the ligaments that bind the body politic, and you will diffuse health and vigor through the system.

But, said he, how different may be its condition, if, by continuing the credit system, The peculiar conformation of the federal Congress should compel the West, in self-degovernment-being "imperium in imperio"- fence, to oppose in a body the passage, or reenhances the value of public sentiment, and sist the execution of laws which it may be the renders it more necessary to the stability of interest and wish of the East to enact and to constitutional authority that popular confi- enforce, or should give the East an engine with dence should be preserved, and the whole mor- which it might annoy and oppress the West, al strength of the body politic kept undivided or should distract and pervert the public counon the side of the Union. The union of the cils, and array the East and the West against states, he said, was the first object of the con- each other. Should this state of things ever stitution. Nothing should be encouraged that occur, (and that it must sooner or later, under could weaken its ties. They are few and weak the present system, if continued, seemed to enough. Local feelings and sectional jeal him as inevitable as the decrees of fate) no ousies are already sufficiently strong and nu-man should shut his eyes to the consequences merous. He feared it might be unsafe to in- that must follow. He would not portray them, crease them; it might do mischief; it could not but the effect that would be produced on the possibly do good. He repeated, that he did feelings and policy of the West, and on the not mean to insinuate that the Western debt, if legislation of Congress, not to look at ulterior augmented to even one hundred million, would results, must be seen by all who are acdestroy the Union. He could not utter such a quainted with human nature, or the history of sentiment. But he did mean to say that such the world. Would not the West be interested a debt would inevitably tend to inspire feel- deeply in indulgence, while the other members ings and generate interests, at war with the of the Union might be inclined, or even nefundamental principles of the Union. He cessitated, to coerce payment? Might not a hoped that there would always be too much American virtue and good sense to permit any eircumstances to produce such an awful catas trophe as dissolution.

Western party be created, (and would it not be formidable?) with anti-national interests and feelings? Would not the people of the West expect and require indulgence? Might they

not be willing or compelled to make sacrifices Green River less united in interest and feeling to obtain it? If opposed, might they not be than the people west and east of the Alleghany exasperated? If defeated, might they not feel mountains? Are the citizens of Kentucky it their duty to resist? Might not indulgence less attached to their State constitution than become a prominent feature in Western policy? the western people are to the general governMight not members of Congress be elected ment? He said, that the nature of the confedsolely with a view to the indulgence? Might eration would prove that a federal land debt they not be willing to make legislative com- must be infinitely more mischievous than any promises to attain the only end of their elec-state debt, under any circumstances, on action? Would not the East thus have an ascen- count of the magnitude of the debt, and the dency, almost irresistible, over the West? confliction of political interests, and feelings, From such a humiliating and perilous pre-and obligations, not merely in the West, but dicament, Mr. Robertson said he would, while in the East, and the North, and the South. it was yet possible, rescue the Western coun- He said, that if he should be compelled to try. The mammoth land debt, if permitted to select any portion of the population of the grow, would be sufficiently calamitous if it United States to defend the Union, in any should only lead to some of the consequences emergency, he should look to the West. at which he had hinted. Such consequences He concurred fully with his colleague, (Mr. it was the duty of every citizen to avert. He Brown) that the people of the West are as much knew, he said, that he would be told, that the devoted to the general interests of the Union, people of the United States are too virtuous and would make as many sacrifices to maintain and enlightened to permit a sectional debt, them as any other portion of the American however large, to influence their political feel- population; and if it would not be deemed inings or conduct; but he was not yet prepared vidious, he would say more. They have givto believe that human nature is so far sublim- en many and signal proofs of it. But this, he ated in the United States as to be exempt from said, is no argument in favor of the credit systhe influence of interest, passion, or ambition. tem-a system that would, in its ultimate tenHe said, that if any illustration were necessa-dencies, conflict with those national feelings ry to show the effect of a land debt on legislation and local parties, an experiment had been made in Kentucky, which furnished a very apposite exemplification

that now animate them-but on the contrary, it is a persuasive one against it. Having now the warm and cordial support of the West, it would not be wise to persist in a course of In that state there was a large body of the measures that must inevitably tend to stifle people indebted to the government for lands those moral impulses which prompted to it. purchased south of Green River, on credit. He would invigorate the arm, and distend the The debt had been due many years, but at heart of Western patriotism, and not paralyze every session of the legislature, indulgence had the one and contract the other, nor nerve the been granted since the debt became due. one and steel the other against the common inMembers had been elected to the legislature, terests. He would repeat, that he did not bewith instructions to obtain a further indulg-lieve that, if the land debt should increase to ence. A promise to procure it, or the belief any amount, the Western people would resist, that they would make all necessary efforts, by force, its collection, or desire the subversion was generally a "sine qua non" to their election, of the government to avoid its payment. But The Green River country had become very he asked, if it could be prudent, in a governstrong, and its indulgence had become a sort of ment depending for its existence and support party question-a political hobby. It is be- on public opinion, to make it the interest of the lieved that it has frequently been the subject of people to embarrass its regular operations, or to "legislative compromises"-the consideration resist its laws? And, said he, might not a for other laws, and other laws the consideration large debt, hanging over one moity of the for that. He believed that it is now consider-nation, create, throughout the whole, interests, ed almost a matter of course and of right. He and feelings, and conduct, not calculated to adhad no doubt that it had frequently been vance the happiness of the people, or strengthgranted against the free consent of the legisla- en constitutional authority?

ture, and had been the means of passing laws Every government that ever had to encounthat otherwise would not have been enacted. ter a large popular debt, had felt it to be a poThat state had not yet gotten the debt in; he tent adversary. Why did Lycugus and Sohad doubts whether it ever would-the pros-lon abolish all debt in the organization of their pect being no better now than it was many systems of government? Why did the Roman years ago. Plebians, after being oppressed by their PatriHe said, that he believed that the Green cian creditors, raise the standard of revolt, and River indulgence had been sometimes necessa-retreat to mons sacer? And why did the Patriry, and he did not know that it is not, even cians ultimately submit? And what were the yet, proper; but he had alluded to it to show progress and effects of the long struggle? If, the effect of a land debt on revenue, on party said he, the land debt be permitted to accumuelections and on legislation. If, said he, such late, and its enforcement be attempted, the West have been the fate and effects of a Green Riv- may not resist; it may not murmur; it may not er land debt in Kentucky, what must be the evince sensation, even; but the debt might not consequences in the United States of a Western be collected, and he did not wish to see the debt? Are the citizens south and north of experiment tried. There is no necessity to

make any experiment on the temper of the the objections that had been urged to the subWest. Western freemen would never willing-stitution of cash for credit. And in this it is ly "give up the ship." They would never se- singularly and completely successful. cede, unless disfranchised by those who ought He thought that it would be fair to conclude to be their friends; and, if they ever should that the bill ought to pass. That it ought, retreat to the sacred mountain, he hoped there there could be no doubt, unless objections would be one Menenius and one Valerius could be urged to it more formidable than those among them, who would be able to rally them to which the existing law is liable, or arguagain under the standard of the Union. ments against it stronger than those which were pressed against the latter.

But it could not be the interest of the United States to persist in the system which could produce any consequences which it is the duty of every enlightened and patriotic statesman to prevent a system that would engender discord and party feuds, and excite jealousies and discontent, and perhaps insubordination.

He said he had heard only two objections to the proposed system. 1st. That it would oppress the poor man, by giving the capitalist and speculator an unreasonable and unjust advantage over him. 2nd. That it would retard the population and diminish the influence of the Every consideration which could operate on Western country. He believed that no other his mind, he said, strengthened his conviction objections that are even plausible had been or that the credit system could not be executed, could be made, and these he considered by no or, if executed, that it would do much mis- means formidable. He thought that a very chief. In its execution, it would defeat some slight examination would be sufficient to show of the ends for which it was established; and that they are both evanescent. He expected he thought it required no argument to show results from the cash system, in its operations that a system, whose operations are incompat-on the poor, the rich, and the Western counible with its designs, and subversive of the try, the opposite of those apprehended by its first purposes for which a government was in- opposers, and which he should endeavor briefstituted, and which counteracts the policy of ly to exhibit, in the course of the notice ho wise legislation, ought to be abolished. That should take of the objections. the credit system is such an one, he had en- But it should not, said Mr. Robertson, esdeavored to show. It ought, therefore, he cape notice, that if the objections are in themthought, to be repealed, if one less exception-selves true, they constitute no sufficient arguable could be substituted. He thought the ment to prevent the passage of the bill; for, if bill under consideration furnished such an the interests of the government and of the body one. It remained, therefore, for him to offer of the people require its passage, it would be some reasons to show that the mode proposed unreasonable to demand or permit its rejecis better than that in operation. tion, merely because a particular class of the

mote the interests of the majority, must be incompatible with some individual rights or interests in society. Therefore, the political axiom-that private interests should be sacrificed on the altar of the public good-would be a sufficient answer to the objections, if they were founded upon correct hypotheses.

Mr. Robertson said, if he had been success-community or district of country might be inful in his attempt to prove that the credit sys-jured by it. Otherwise, all legislation would tem is defective, because it is a credit system, not only be nugatory, but unjust; because it would be unnecessary to consume time by an every general law, however much it may proeffort to show that the cash system will be preferable, so far, because it will be a cash system. As the strongest general considerations which, in his opinion, conduced to show the superiority of the cash over the credit system had already been anticipated in his endeavor to exhibit some objections to credit in the foregoing part of his argument, he would not reiterate them. If he had shown the defectiveness of credit, it would necessarily follow that the proposed system is, quo ad hoc, preferable.

Upon that ground he was willing to rest the comparative merits of the two systems, so far as it might depend on the two leading and characteristic features of credit ond cash. These are so important and controlling, that a comparison of the more minute traits would be unnecessary; because, whatever might be its results, they could have no influence in the decision. But, if such a comparison could be at all material, he was sure it would result in showing the superiority of the proposed over the existing system, in every feature in which they differ.

But, he said, if it were material to take more particular notice of the objections, he thought it was as nearly demonstrable as any moral or political proposition, from its nature, could be, that the cash system would not only dimin ish and embarrass speculation, but promote the interests of the poor, and the permanent and substantial welfare of the Western country.

He believed that no other system would tend more to those results, unless it should be one by which the public lands should be gratuitously distributed; and, for such an one, he was unwilling to believe that there would be any serious advocates. If there were any such, he would recommend to them the immediate abrogation of the credit system, and the substitution of an Agrarian law.

The principal of these, in addition to credit But, said he, the public land being a comand cash, is the minimum quantity of land mon fund, and Congress being its depository, and of price. The reduction of each in the it is their duty to dispose of it in such a manbill under consideration is intended to remove ner as to promote the common interest. They