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answer, though it may be an additional reason. But it is generally the dark Italian, and not the Englishman, who teaches the monkey his tricks, and is as friendly with him as a dog. And if it be true, as there seems good reason to suppose, that the ape of Gibraltar is not indigenous but an importation, we have an additional proof that proximity of geographical area, combined with deeper colour, causes greater sympathy between man and his nearest resemblance; and, accordingly, we find that the Portuguese and the Spaniard have a much smaller disinclination to mix with the dark races than ourselves. Hence their influence must necessarily be much greater. And though in many of their settlements the Portuguese may have degenerated, yet probably had they not preceded us, and made us as it were intelligible, our success, if we have had any, in the Negro, might have been less than it is. I said, in another part of this paper, that I thought the assertion that all the ancient civilisations had produced no effect upon the Negro might be somewhat difficult to prove. The Egyptian civilisation, for example, has so long passed away, that we can only laboriously reconstruct some faint and probably fallacious idea of it. That we ourselves should have been, however, exactly what we are, if the banks of the Nile had never displayed that civilisation, is very doubtful. But it would be very difficult to point out in what consist its effects upon modern Europe. Now if this be so, if this civilisation is so ancient, that what was worth preserving has become our unconscious inheritance, we can scarcely expect to find its traces existing in the Negro. But because we cannot point them out is scarce a sufficient reason, any more than it is with ourselves, for saying that nothing was effected thereby. Vol. iv, p. 426, Dr. Barth says distinctly that the Negroes must have received in more ancient times several institutions from the Egyptians, with whom, says he "I have no doubt they maintained an intercourse by means of the energetic inhabitants of Augila from a relatively ancient period;" and he instances the great care which the Songhay bestowed upon their dead. "The attention thus bestowed upon the dead seems not to have been in consequence of the introduction of Islam, but appears rather to have been traditionally handed down from the remotest antiquity." The Egyptians, therefore, do not seem to have been so powerless over the Negro as has been asserted; and in modern times, again, the religion. which Egypt professes, has undoubtedly brought with it in its progress to western Africa a very considerable amount of civilisation, of which the Negro has shown himself by no means incapable of taking advantage. It has abolished human sacrifices and many gross superstitions, and in all places established some kind of learning and a literature. "Mohammedanism alone in these countries," says Dr. Barth, "maintains any sort of government. It alone has succeeded in giving to distant regions a certain bond of unity, and in making the land more accessible to trade and intercourse." It is in my opinion only by following the channel which Islamism has made that any real benefit can be done to the Negro. Through Egypt, and by means of Egypt, the real influence of Europe must be brought to bear.

The efforts of missionaries on the western coast have produced

literally no effect whatever. The tide of Mohammedanism is still sweeping on towards beyond the equator; but from this we ought to learn the lesson how to bring in time something better. And if we are but content to follow in the footsteps of the old and the modern populations of Egypt, we may yet be able to engraft upon the savages of central Africa, and upon the Negro in his own land, and unremoved from his own soil, all the advantages he is capable of receiving.

Mr. WINWOOD READE: Such experience as I have had in Pagan and Mohammedan Africa leads me to endorse every sentiment that Mr. Bendyshe has expressed in his paper; and, in fact, I have put the very same ones into print in a work that will soon be published. With respect to intermediate tribes in Equatorial Africa, I have no doubt that the Negroes there are comparative strangers, considered in the geological ages of the world. Though I never saw them, I heard rumours of a race of people which seemed to answer what the Hottentots are among the Caffres, in Equatorial Africa; and I think it very possible that, when the caverns and mountains can be searched, intermediate tribes will be discovered between the gorilla and man. With respect to the Mohammedan known in Africa, I have devoted a great portion of my work to proving that Christians cannot civilise Negroes, and that the Mohammedans can, and are doing so. They are making thousands and thousands of converts, as Mr. Fraser, I have no doubt, can inform you, and such civilisation as the Negroes possess is owing entirely to Mohammedan influence. It is true that the Pagan Negroes have traces of civilisation among them, as Mr. Bendyshe supposes. For instance, in the Congo, where no Arabs have yet arrived, they have the practice of preparing mummies, as was done in Egypt, and also other traces of civilisation. With respect to Mr. Dingle's remarks, the Negroes of whom Mr. Park spoke so highly were Mohammedans.

Mr. DINGLE: Certainly not.

Mr. READE: They were, at least, the Mandingoes and Foulahs. Mr. DINGLE: Mungo Park makes a distinction between the Mohammedans and the Pagans, and speaks especially of Pagans asking education from the Mohammedans.

Mr. READE: According to Mohammedan laws, Mohammedan priests would not instruct Negroes if they were Pagans.

Mr. DINGLE: He states it as a fact. Of course, the tendency would be to make them Mohammedans, but, nevertheless, they would be children of Pagans. Of Parker, especially, the man he remained with so long, he spoke expressly of his schoolmaster.

Mr. READE: I have no doubt they were children of Pagans; but, of course, they must have been Mohammedans to receive instructions from the Mohammedans.

Mr. DINGLE: Children are not one thing or another.

Mr. READE: I have seen fifty of these schools in Mohammedan Africa, and many children of Pagans that have been taken from their parents and educated by the Marabouts, or Mohammedan priests. They are taught to write and read Arabic, though certainly they are not taught the Koran, and to teach them the Koran is the chief object of

Mohammedan education. With respect to a custom which Mr. Dingle cited as a proof of high civilisation

Mr. DINGLE: No; I never cited anything as a proof of high civilisation.

Mr. READE: The custom of a Negro refusing to marry a Negress if she is not a virgin I will explain. Virginity in Africa, as in other countries, is considered a marketable commodity. When a man marries, a new goatskin, or piece of white cloth, is put on the marriage bed, and if the signs of virginity cannot be produced, the husband receives back the money paid for his wife. That, I am afraid, we cannot look upon as a sign of high civilisation.

Mr. DINGLE: I did not say "high."

Mr. READE: Respecting the precocity of Negro children, on that there can be no doubt. Mrs. Walker, the wife of the Rev. William Walker, an American missionary, who was ten years in Africa teaching children, and had twelve years' experience in teaching in America, told me that the Negro children were more precocious than the American children, but had not such retentive memories, and that, generally speaking, they came to a state of in statu quo about sixteen, and after that slowly forgot all they had learnt.

Mr. DINGLE: I could give you plenty of such instances among our own countrymen.

Mr. READE: I am only speaking of Negroes. For myself, I have learnt something since I was sixteen. With respect to the civilisation of the Negroes of Sierra Leone, I have been there, and have had opportunities of seeing something of the native character. I got there on a Sunday, and had a Negro to carry my luggage to the house where I was going to stay. When I got there I offered him sixpence, which I understood was the proper sum to pay. He said that I must give him a shilling, double the price, because he was breaking the Sabbath. In the afternoon, walking about the town, I saw a Negro woman, with a very pretty child. I said, "That is a very pretty child; is it your daughter?" "Yes," she said, "that my proper daughter. That am very pretty child. Would you like to buy him?" I said, "What?" She said, "Give me plenty of rum and cloth, and I sell you my child." So I thought to myself, this is some woman just come from the interior of Africa, who has never received Christian instruction; but, when the church bell rang, she stopped and said, "You no hear church bell? Stop, I'll go to church; now, after church we palava." With respect to a great number of native preachers in Sierra Leone, the most eminent of them had been in a chain gang. The doctrines they expounded were curious; one specimen I will give you. The native preacher wished to explain to his congregation the origin of the white man. He said to them, "My bredren, you see a white man; he bad too much, he wicked too much. You wonder how God let such a man as that come into the world. Now, I tell you. A berry long time ago, Adam and Eve lived in one beautiful garden; plantens there sweet, potatoes, plum wine, ah, ah, too much. They had two sons-one Cain, the udder Abel. Cain kill him brudder, Abel. So God He came out from de sky, and says, ' Cain!' Cain go and hide himself in de bush; so

God says, Cain, you tink I no see you, you bush nigger! Come here, Cain!' So Cain came out, and said, 'Yes, Massa; I here. What do Massa want?' God said, 'Where your brudder Abel?' Then Cain turned white all over. Him de first white man, bredren." With respect to the Negroes of Sierra Leone having the same rights and privileges as the white man: the Negro certainly is put upon the juries. In fact, there are more Negroes than white men on the juries, generally in the proportion of about nine or ten Negroes out of the twelve. The consequence is, that whenever a white man brings an action against a black man, the white man always loses, added to which there are instances on record to show that black jurymen are in the habit of getting drunk in the jury-box, and sometimes of insulting the judge, and getting committed. I will just give you one instance, to show the kind of animus that prevails between the white man and a black servant who insulted him. The white man said, "Get out of my yard;" the black man, "See you damned first." The white man took him by the shoulders, as we should do in England if we were insulted on our own premises, and kicked him out. The black man brought an action; the white man was fined £50. I have nothing to say against the Wesleyan missionaries in Sierra Leone; they are a very good kind of men. They do not always speak good English; but I believe them to be pious, hard-working people. They are liable to be deceived by the West African Negroes, who are the most consummate hypocrites and the greatest liars in the world. But I must say, in favour of the missionaries, that times are very much altered since Major Laing wrote, when he said, "There are three missionaries in Sierra Leone, one of whom is living with a Negro woman, another is in the habit of getting drunk in the streets; and the third has been tried for the murder of a little boy, whom he had flogged to death."

Mr. PLINY MILES: It appears to me as though the arguments tonight have all been on one side; and, partly on that ground, and partly because the other side wants defending, I think I shall take the other side. The statements made in reference to the paper which was read at the former meeting, are, I have no doubt correct. I did not hear it, but it has been intimated to me that, according to the author of that paper, the Negro comes nearer to the Gorilla or Ape than the white man; in other words, he is nearer a brute than a human being. (No, no.) Something, at least, of that sort, was the impression produced upon the meeting. Now, I shall endeavour to make it appear that such positively is the case, and will begin de novo, to endeavour to prove it. I shall discuss the question physiologically, not omitting facts relating to philanthropy, politics, or religion. I have no doubt that you will agree with me when I call attention to the fact that when we visit the Zoological Gardens, or similar collections, and look at the different animals, of apes, baboons, and monkeys, we feel a great degree of repulsion in consequence of the certain amount of resemblance that they bear to the human race, and yet they are evidently beasts. Now, sir, is it not evident that if we look upon the ape as a beast and not a human being, if it were not created somewhat in the likeness of a human being, we should feel no more re

pugnance towards it than we do towards a greyhound. It is evident to me that the Almighty, in creating him in the likeness of a human being, has done so in order that we might not think him to be one, and he has given him one of the worst places in the world to live in -the tropics. It must be evident that the Negro is an inferior race, for no one but an inferior race would live in the worst part of the world. There are other facts to show that the Negro approximates to animals. The best cavalry soldiers in the army of Africa in ancient times, were the Numidians-true Africans and Negroes. They actually rode bare back, and in consequence of the aid given by that force, Hannibal was able to conquer Rome. Now, I think it is readily conceivable that the Negro must be somewhat nearer the animal than the man, or he could not make such good use of an animal such as that, and ride without saddle or bridle; and I think that the inference we must draw from my first statement, that the Almighty has given the Negro a profound idea of religion and reverence, in order to repel us from them by showing us that they have a certain amount of resemblance to ourselves. In fact, the argument has proved too much. It proves that the Negro is something above an animal, that he has a high appreciation, not only for character, but for persons that are superior to himself. In the United States of America we get a striking proof that he is not only inferior to the white man, but deserves to be so. He is very humble and submissive. The white man shows the extraordinary talent of being a very great tyrant. We have seen a great many accounts of the white man being very abusive; and the Negro race, with one or two exceptions-such as the case of a white man who got shipwrecked on the coast of Africa, on which occasion the Negroes exhibited something of the same talent-shows a different disposition. The white man, therefore, must be a superior man, because he has exhibited that peculiar kind of ability that tyrannises over his fellows. Now, I shall consider that you will take for granted what I state to-night, without troubling me to bring up any skulls; I shall propound all my facts ex cathedrâ. I was going to give you an example of a Negro, whose name I very much regret to have forgotten; but those who travelled in the Southern States of America fourteen or fifteen years ago, must have heard of him. He was an eminent engineer who built all the covered bridges that crossed the streams in the States of Alabama and Georgia, and they are certainly finished specimens of workmanship. In fact, his master made so much of him, that he liked very well to forfeit all his earnings. Now I think that that fact proves that the Negro is incapable of any great degree of improvement. Another fact I remember with reference to the city of New Orleans. There are three distinct races there, and when negroes, whether free or bond, are taken from one of the municipalities-from the English to the French, or the French to the English-only knowing the language they have been brought up in, they actually pick up the other language in six weeks. Of course they do not talk it grammatically; but I think that, having that extraordinary facility of acquiring a language, they must be considered to be a degraded race. I have another argument which will

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