He

[954 said there was a general stagnation of better than any addition which would be trade. There was, indeed, in every productive of such odium. For, after all, branch of trade and industry, a greater whether there was a sinking fund of 2 stagnation than was ever before known- millions, or even 5 millions, was a matter there was nothing but distress in every of little difference to them, considering class of our manufacturers-the table was the height from which they had fallen. loaded with petitions from the agricultu. He did not see, under the present circumrists with petitions from every quarter stances, it was possible to retain the sinkcomplaining of the insupportable burthen ing fund; and he found no fault with the of the poor-rates. And what was the right hon. gentleman on this account return they were about to make to these merely-he lamented the necessity for a petitions? In about twenty-four hours breach of faith; but this might be forced after receiving these petitions, they were on them by their paramount duty to take to answer by an imposition of three mil- care of the public safety. But, before lions of fresh taxes! Could they soberly consenting to new taxes, it was necessary believe that this would not be attended to convince the country, that they were with the most alarming effects on discon- absolutely required for this paramount tented persons in this country, if they object of the public safety, and that every allowed there were discontented per- thing had previously been done in the way sons? When petitioners came before of economy and retrenchment. And here them affirming that at present, from the he was disposed to place first what the effect of taxation, with every exertion right hon. gentleman had put last-he they could not possibly subsist themselves meant reform and retrenchment. and families, were they to be told-" the maintained that they had no right to imonly sound remedy is, to tax you still pose a single additional tax till they showmore; we grieve only that you have noted that they had reduced every establishbeen hitherto taxed enough; in relieving you from 18 millions of taxes we acted wrong; but we will retrieve our error as soon as possible, and by way of a beginning, we will now impose on you the sixth part of the taxes from which we relieved you [Hear, hear!]?" Why, this was nothing more nor less than an insult on the whole country. He did not mean to say, that ministers might not be right in endeavouring to place the finances of the country on a permanent footing. But this ought not to be done at a time when it would derange the peace and tranquillity of the country. These things might be glossed over in the House, but they might depend on it, they would not be so out of doors. After the accounts of the flourishing state of the country, which they had so frequently heard from the noble lord opposite, and the right hon. gentleman, and which they had even put into the Prince Regent's mouth at the opening of the session, how would they now view an imposition of 3 millions of new taxes for the purpose of increasing the sinking fund? Speaking as a stockholder, he affirmed, that he would rather content himself with the surplus of 2 millions without new taxes, than have 5 millions as a sinking fund on those terms. He was speaking merely as an individual; but he believed, that the stockholders generally would consider this two millions

ment from the highest to the lowest, to the very utmost that was compatible with the public safety. It would be objected to him perhaps, that no retrenchment to any considerable amount was practicable; but he was thoroughly convinced, that retrenchments compatible with the public safety, might be effected to the amount of one million per annum. The right hon. gentleman had himself allowed, that some. thing might be effected by a different mode of collecting the revenue; but he was sorry to say that he did not much trust in his discoveries. The noble lord, too, when he moved for the appointment of the committee of finance, had said that this should be the last year of its sitting. This had not much the appearance of economy, especially when it was recollected how that committee had discharged its duties. Had that committee examined into the nature of any public offices, except those connected with the army and ordnance? Had it ever attempted to probe matters to the very bottom, as had been done in that committee over which their late speaker, lord Colchester, and another hon. gentleman in his eye (Mr. Bankes), had so ably presided? No, nothing like it: every thing that came from that committee, came in a round about way, from the ministers themselves; just as if it were an offence for any body but themselves to say that ministers were to

be trusted in matters of economy. All had then made it an argument for inthe great reductions which had been made creasing our ordnance establishments, behad literally been forced upon them. cause a large army always required a large The transition from war to peace had ordnance. To compensate, however, for indeed obtained for us a less numerous this increase, they had made great reducarmy, and a less navy (and if ministers tions in the navy; greater reductions, had not made a reduction in both, they indeed, never had been made in it than could not have walked the streets in were made at present, and the reason of quiet); but in the expenses of the esta- it was this-our navy officers could not blishments necessary for their regulation, bow or scrape as well as the officers of no reduction whatever had been volun- our army, nor play off with equal agility tarily made. When the army estimates the tricks and artifices of skilful courtiers. were before the House, he had said that And yet, as our navy could stand our it would be impossible for him to point guard when our army could not, the reout each item that was improper, or to say duction ought not to have been so disprowhat might be saved here and what there; portionate in the two services. Low as but still he maintained that a large reduc- it had been made in the one, it ought to tion ought, and with proper attention be made still lower in the other; and if might be easily effected. It was for the the noble lord's assertion be true, that we principle of economy that he combatted, are likely to continue at peace with all the and against that principle ministers as world, let him show us his belief of it by vehemently contended. His friends had another reduction in our military estatried them upon the question of the two blishments. The army, however, was not lords of the admiralty. These lords had the only department of our expenditure only 1,000l. a piece, so that the saving in which great savings might be accom which they had proposed only amounted plished. The expenses of many of our to 2,000l. per annum; this, it was said, colonies might be diminished; a consoliwas scarce worth talking about: he allow- dation of offices under the revenue might ed it; but maintained that the principle take place, and the office of a third secre on which the reduction was founded was tary of state might be entirely abolishinvaluable. Good speeches might be ed. Indeed, he saw no more reason for made in defence of these two lords by a third secretary of state than he did for those who had even less ability than those a third archbishop. The necessity of a who usually defended them; but it was board of control might also be taken into not a good speech that would satisfy the consideration. Indeed, the affairs of country on such a subject-nothing would Ceylon and the Mauritius rather belonged do except economy. The right hon. to the office of a noble lord than to the member then adverted to the magnitude office in which they were at present transof our military establishments, which, if acted. Might it not also be advisable to they were not reduced speedily, would look at the Horse-guards, and to consider end in our total ruin. Much had been the necessity of having a secretary-at-war said of the imposing attitude which we in time of profound peace? It might be preserved towards Europe: he wished to uncomfortable for hon. gentlemen to hear know which of these two attitudes was the of such reductions, but it was scarcely most imposing-to keep up a large army less uncomfortable for him to come forwhose expenses we could not pay, or a ward and advocate the necessity of making small army whose expenses we could pay, them. He had much rather live at ease and whose numbers we could increase in the country, and see gentlemen at the whenever we had occasion for them. head of large establishments, indulging But then, it was hard, very hard, to part the hospitality of their tempers in feasting with a little patronage. Yet before they and revelry, than propose such retrenchtaxed the meanest beggar in the country, ments as he now felt it his duty to prohe had a right to say to them, "Show pose; he had as good a turn for the luxu me that you have avoided all unnecessary ries of this world as any member on the expenditure." But this his majesty's mi- opposite benches; but still as they had nisters could not show, because they had now been vapouring and prancing for been guilty of the most profuse extra- many years, and as the bill was brought vagance. They had maintained an army in, it was fit that they should pay it, and which was too large both for the safety of" pay it you shall," said the right hon. the country and of the constitution, and member, addressing them, “if ought I

can say has any weight or influence inhibition of that reluctance could be made this House." "But then," say the sup- without occasioning a pressure on the porters of the present system, "if these people. For his own part, he was sure reductions are made, no administration that if they had the money given them, can possibly stand." He maintained, that the country would hear no more about any administration which owed its conti- their economy till they had occasion to nuance in power to such support as this apply for some again; for he was certain, extravagance supplied, ought not to that in their natures they abhorred ecostand for a single moment; and added, nomy, and that they never would practise that no administration could be strong it, unless it was forced upon them in in public opinion except that which future as it had been forced upon them in took care that every farthing of money the past. Whenever and wherever they exacted from the public was expended had resorted to it, they had resorted to it in real and not in nominal services. to stifle what they called the clamour and These observations were forced upon his impatience of the populace; and had mind by the actual state of the country, never made any reductions voluntarily, which was so melancholy that every sacri- except those which were occasioned by fice ought to be made by those in power the transition from war to peace. He previous to any application for new taxes. again repeated his assertion, that by a But it was now argued, that though the careful attention to our expenditure, present measure was one of the strongest 1,000,000l. might be annually saved to the necessity, the country had such confidence country. Our situation, though one of in his majesty's present advisers as not to difficulty, ought to be looked fairly in the have any objection to acceding to it. He face; we might want taxes, but we ought would allow that the division which had to try every expedient before we resorted taken place on the motion submitted by to new ones. There was the sinking fund himself to the House the other night on the state of the nation, was such as to show that the House had the most implicit confidence in the noble lord and right hon. gentleman opposite; he would allow that they were the best, the wisest, the most economical, and the most consistent ministers that could be found in the country [loud laughter]; yet still, allowing all the merit that was due to that overpowering majority, he must say that, if his motion had been carried, they would have been doing on the 18th of May what they were now proceeding to do on the 7th of June. The right hon. gentleman opposite says, "a great saving in the collection of the revenue can be effected; leave it to me, and be assured that I will accomplish it." With all due deference to the chancellor of the exchequer, he would not leave it to him; as soon as he did leave it to him, there would be a long farewell to all economy and retrenchment. But when the right hon. gentleman promised retrenchment, it was only right perhaps to ask, for what was all this retrenchment to be made? For the sinking fund? But if he had not been economical for the people of England, was it likely that he would become so for the sinking fund? The strongest excitement which he and his colleagues could have to economy, would be a reluctance on the part of the House in granting the supplies, if the ex

of which it would be better to take the whole, than to leave 2,000,000l., and add 3,000,000l. in taxes. One thing extraor dinary in the conduct of the ministry was, that they did not come forward with an acknowledgment of their errors. He had himself doubted of the necessity of the last war, when it was originally commenced; and now that the heat and passion which prevailed at its commencement had subsided, he still retained the same doubts; but whether that war was necessary or not, the profusion with which it had been carried on was quite unparalleled: he had no hesitation in saying that it might have been concluded at half the expense by which it was concluded. He therefore asked the ministry to confess the embarrassment by which they were surrounded. They had indeed said, that during the last three years something awkward had happened; but that was the severest term which they could be induced to apply to the distresses of the country. He again repeated, that great reductions must be made, if the government wished to render the taxes at all palatable; and concluded his speech by observing, that he should not say any thing at that time regarding the particular taxes which it was proposed to levy, as his objection was, to the levying of new taxes at all. He should therefore move the previous question on the two last resolutions.

Lord Castlereagh said, he would not was not fair to accuse them of extravatrouble the House at any great length, gance, because they had thought it requibecause the real question was contained in site to retain the two lords of the admia very narrow compass. There were three ralty, against whom such loud and violent considerations upon which it rested; the declamation had been lately uttered. Infirst was, whether the country, under its deed, these two lords of the admiralty were present circumstances, was necessitated to always used as a stalking-horse, wherewith make any financial efforts at all; the se- to frighten ministers; whilst, on the other cond was, the magnitude of those efforts; hand, the reduction of them was always and the third, the time when those efforts the nostrum recommended by gentlemen ought to be made, if it should be judged opposite to remove the grievances of the necessary to make them at all. But be- country. The right hon. gentleman had fore he entered upon these subjects, he also protested against the finance commust make a few observations on what he mittee, and in every case where the commust style the preliminary remarks of the mittee had not been nominated by himright hon. gentleman opposite. The bur- self, had represented it as a grievance. then of the right hon. gentleman's song When that committee was originally apall the evening had been, "I have no con- pointed, he (lord C.) had said, that the fidence that the ministers of the Crown House would see whether the government will dispose of the supplies in a proper were not willing to carry the principle of manner, and I therefore call upon the reform as far as was possible. He would Crown to dismiss them." This was all merely refer to their conduct in regard natural in the right hon. gentleman; he to drawbacks and bounties in the colleccould not help feeling sore upon the divi- tion of the revenue. In fact, in a future sion against him on a former evening, session, it would be the duty of the comand angry at the members who had swelled mittee of finance to charge itself with the numbers against him. He could as- the important subject of drawbacks and sure those gentlemen that they were bounties. He was also disposed to comalready registered in the right hon. gen- plain a little of some of the other prelitleman's black book, and that they could minary observations of the right hon. never purge themselves, in the right hon. gentleman, and particularly of those which gentleman's opinion, of the guilt which they were intended to convey a false impression had contracted by voting with ministers; into the country. Surely this attempt was no, not even by voting against them on not only unworthy of the high station the present occasion. The right hon. which the right hon. gentleman held in gentleman had said, that if they had voted the House, and of his great knowledge with him on a former evening, they would upon subjects of this nature; but very have discussed on the 18th of May what nearly half of his address had been emthey were now discussing on the 7th of ployed in insinuating alarm into the minds June. With due deference to him, that of the public creditor, that ministers were was not correct: if he had succeeded in meditating a breach of faith; that the his motion of the other evening, the Crown object of the proposition of the chancellor must have looked out for other ministers; of the exchequer was, the destruction of and, in that case, he was inclined to think the sinking fund, as established by Mr. that the right hon. gentleman, with all Pitt, and afterwards modified by parliathe dangerous responsibility which he had ment. Yet nothing could be more undescribed as likely to attach to any per- founded than such a supposition. Nothing son who now took up the reins of adminis- like an invasion of the sinking fund had tration, and with all the ill-health, which been contemplated. The arrangement no man could regret more sincerely than of to-night was perfectly consistent with he did, that the right hon. gentleman was its perfect existence; for the resolution subject to, would not have been able to was simply to put into operation the prove himself so efficient a minister as to clause which Mr. Fox himself had introenter so soon upon the duties of his office. duced. Such, however, had been the The noble lord then maintained, that the right hon. gentleman's impetuosity of present administration had proceeded with blame-such had been his determination the utmost rapidity in making all the eco-to find fault at all events, and to harangue nomical arrangements in their power, especially in the army, navy, and ordnance departments; and argued that it

about economy-that he could scarcely allow the chancellor of the exchequer to open his plan before he rose to object to