Monday, March 23, 1807. CARNATIC PAPERS. Sir T. Turton, in a speech of considerable length, which he prefaced by observing, that no change of administration could, in any measure, affect the question now before the house, inveighed strongly against the assumption of the government of the Carnatic, which he repeatedly termed one of the most gross and infamous stretches of tyranny that ever disgraced the annals of India. He dwelt much upon the subsequent treatment of the Polygars, who, he contended, were no more subjects of Britain than of Hesse Cassel. He did not charge the lords Clive or Wellesley with the murder of the nabob of Arcot, but insisted that both had been the means of bringing about that murder. The hon. bart. concluded with moving, that there be laid before the house a copy of the instructions given to lord Morning. ton by the board of control, or the secret committee, previous to the treaty respecting the Carnatic in 1792. The hon. baronet said, that beside the one now before the house, he had, upon the same subject, twelve other motions to submit to the house. Mr. Tierney, in answer to the hon. baronet's long speech, should briefly observe, that of the papers now called for, one part did not exist, and the other part was already printed. Sir T. Turton said, that not being in the office of the right hon. gentleman, he had not the same means of information, and, therefore, was not aware of what had just been mentioned. He thought the right hon. gentleman's answer a fair one, and was willing to withdraw his motion. Lord A. Hamilton thought it better that the proper officers be required to lay before the house a copy of all instructions that had been issued. Sir A. Wellesley contended, that all the instructions which had been transmitted, were already in pos session of the house. Colonel Symes asserted, that there would not be time in the present session to examine all the papers, for which the hon. baronet had moved. Though he had given a long explanation of the object of these motions, yet the explanation was so imperfect, that he could not pretend to understand him. Yet there were one or two observations in his statement which he could not pass over without some notice--Sir T. Turton rose to order, affirming, that the honorable gentleman ought to confine himself to the particular question before the house.-After a few words from sir J. Anstruther, Mr. Tierney, and col. Symes, the motion was agreed to. The motion for a copy of the Review, promised by marquis Wellesley to the directors, was then put and carried, it being understood that there was no such paper, but sir T. Turton wishing to have that fact formally before the house. Sir T. Turton also moved for copies of the official letters, other than that of the 23d April, 1800, respecting the papers discovered at Seringapatam, with the answers so far as not already printed. Colonel Symes contended, that the greatest moderation had been practised in acting on these papers. He denied that the papers had been come by unfairly, or that any improper means had been used to shorten the life of the nabob, who was said not to have died a natural death. He died in consequence of the the intemperate use of opium. The governor of Madras sent Dr. Anderson to him when ill, whose report was, that he found him labouring under an incurable dysentery. Sir T. Turton would not now enter upon the merits, but he was at issue with the hon. gent. in the whole of his statements. Motion agreed to. He next moved for a copy of the paper containing the approbation given of the conduct of lord Clive in the tansaction above alluded to, and in the subsequent arrangements with respect to the prince. Agreed to-The hon. baronet also moved for copies of the letters of Omdut Ul Omrah, &c. complaining of grievances. Ordered. He next moved for a copy of a letter from lord Hobart to Omdut ul Omrah, complaining of the permission given by him to certain artizans, &c. servants of the company, to settle in his dominions. Sir J. Anstruther said, there was no such paper, and that it was not respectful to the house to be moving for papers which it was known did not exist. Colonel Symes observed, that gentlemen might exercise their imagination to the great inconvenience of the house, if these things were permitted. The house then divided on this question, which was lost by a majority of 30 to 24. The other motions were agreed to. March 25, AFFAIRS OF INDIA. Sir Philip Francis wished to call the attention of the house to a subject of the greatest importance, and for that purpose rose to ask some questions of the president of the board of control, or of the person who had lately filled that situation. On the subject to which he alluded, he could speak, perhaps, with more knowledge than any who had heard him. It related to the state of India.. He was not so vain nor so ill instructed by experience, as to imagine that any thing he could say would make any very strong impression on the house, or rouse them to give a more than ordinary attention to the subject which it was his object to press upon their most serious consideration. But though experience had almost deprived him of hope on this point, yet there were some duties that survived even hope, and this was one of them. The questions which he was about to ask, were merely with a view to procure information, and it would depend on the answers, whether he should think it necessary to render them the grounds of any subsequent motion. The first question, then, was, why the accounts on which the East India Budget must be founded, were not as yet on the table, for the house must be aware that it was now three years since the last view of the state of India finances had been given on full and authentic documents. was a point of great importance, and worthy of the serious attention of the house. But this was not what he had particularly in view at this time, and the material object of his rising was, to obtain information on a subject which ought to be before the house. The first part related to the transaction at Vellore; a transaction, melancholy and disastrous in its immediate effects, and to the last degree dangerous, with a view to its ultimate consequences. Whether, therefore, we looked back upon the past, or forward to the future, it was essentially This this nature had been received. He assured the house that the informa Mr. Huskisson spoke to order. He apprehended that it was irregu lar to go into a long statement when a member rose merely to ask a question. Ze essentially necessary, that on this point the house should be in possession of some authentic information to which he referred went to tion, and he hoped that ministers, the very existence of our power in whoever they were, would not India. He had long wished to give withhold that information. Ad- up all concern with the affairs of dressing himself, then, to the right India, on account of the inadehon. gent, who it was understood quate effects which he had found had just retired from the office of to result from his earnest and fre president of the Board of Controul, quent appeals to the house on that he wished to know from him, subject. But this, however, was whether he had received official not solely an Indian subject, it was information from India on this one materially connected with the point, or any information upon prosperity, and perhaps the existhe correctness of which he could tence of this country. In the same depend? Whether the house manner, whatever materially afwould give him credit or not, he fected Ireland was not only an Irish would assure them, that this trans- but a British subject, as the interest action was one of the most dan- of both were, in a great measure, gerous kind with regard to its con- identified. sequences, and he begged of the house not to shut their eyes to it, because the danger was distant in point of local situation. But this was not all; he believed that other advices had been received within a few days past, of greater consequence than the information relative to the affair at Vellore. He alluded to the situation of the Carnatic,' which had filled the government of Madras with the utmost alarm. So great, indeed, was this alarm, that an application had been made by the Madras government, to general Maitland, governor of Ceylon, for an amount of force consisting of all the European troops in that settlement: He had no official information of this; but he had heard it from what he considered as very good private authority. If, then, any information of this sort had come to the India House, he hoped the proper persons would consider it as their duty to lay it before the house. In the mean time, he wished to know, whether, in point of fact, official or authentic information of VOL. 9. The Speaker agreed that it was irregular. Sir P. Francis had no other intention than merely to justify his asking those questions, and, as he had done this, he would trespass on the attention of the house no further. Mr. Tierney rose to give such answers as he could to the questions of his hon. friend. To the question, why no account relative to the finances of India had been laid before the house, the answer was that none could be laid, as they had not as yet arrived. One year's accounts might, indeed, have been made out, and it was his intention to have brought forward these, as might be recollected from the notice he had given. But when he found that he was immediately to have a successor, and that, in fact, for some days past, he only held the office as a locum tenens, & B he he thought that it would be more proper, under all the circumstances, not to take the affair out of the hands of others. He trusted it would not be thought that there was any neglect on his part. There were none arrived but the accounts to which he had adverted, and these he supposed were not those to which his hon. friend had referred in his question. As to the question respecting the transaction at Vellore, the East India board was in possession of authentic documents relative to that point, which would enable them to form a complete judgment upon the whole affair. As to the third question, relative to the situation of the Carnatic, he could assure his hon. friend, that his private information was wrong. No application had been made for troops to General Maitland by the Madras government. There was one general, indeed, who finding himself in difficult circumstances had applied to the governor of Ceylon for some troops, but no regular advices on this subject had arrived, from India. General Maitland, with that attention to his duty, and to the interests of his country, for which he was distinguished, had taken the first opportunity of sending the earliest notice of the state of India, but no regular advices had come from India itself. As to the affair at Vellore, if a motion was made for laying any information on that point before the house, the board of controul would, of course, judge how far it would be prudent to comply. Saturday, June 27, 1807. INDIA BUDGET. Mr. Hiley Addington seeing his · hon. friend (Mr. R. Dundas) in his place, wished to know whether it was his intention to bring forward the accounts of the East India company this session. If so, he trusted that he would bring them forward on as early a day as possible. Mr. R. Dundas replied, that it was certainly his intention to bring forward the accounts of the East India company this session, and that no time should be unnecessarily lost. At the same time, he begged to remind the right hon. gent. that for some years back, these accounts had been one year in arrears. It was his intention to endeavour to bring up that arrear in the present session, and the right hon. gent. must be aware that this would require some time. that Lord Howick observed, from the papers then upon the table, it appeared that, upon a comparison of the revenue and expenditure of the company in India, there was a deficit in the latter of above two millions and a balf. This was a state of things, in which any one might see that it was impossible for the company to go on, without some adequate provision to make good his deficit. It was the more necessary, as the public had been led to expect that there would be a considerable participation, derived from the East India company's funds, in aid of the national resources. He wished to know whether the hon. gent. meant to bring forward any proposition upon that subject. Mr. R Dundas informed the noble lord, that it was his intention, at an early day, to propose some regulations respecting the affairs of India, which would include the point to which the noble lord had adverted. He was afraid, however, that he should not be able to bring forward the annual accounts at so early a day, as only a few of the the ships had yet arrived, and it would be desirable to have the accounts stated in the most correct manner that was possible. Wednesday, July 8. EAST INDIA COMPANY'S Mr. Grant presented a petition from the directors of the East India company, praying for leave to bring in a bill to raise an additional sum on bonds, until the increase of their capital authorized by parliament took place. On his moving that the petition be referred to a committee of the whole house, Mr. Creevey rose and declared, that this was the first instance in which any public body had made such a request to parliament, with out the production of the necessary documents on which it was founded. In 1772, an attempt was made by the ministry of the day to bring in a similar bill, but this attempt was defeated by General Burgoyne, who contended that an explicit account of the reasons which called for such a measure, ought first to be laid before the house. He trusted that the house would pursue a similar mode of conduct in the present instance, and that a complete disclosure of the state of the company's affairs would now take place; especially when it was recollected, that there were two India budgets in arrear. Mr. R. Dundas observed, that the hon. gent. was under a mistake in this business, and that the precedent of 1772, adduced by him, was not in point. The East India company only wanted to raise by bond what they had been already authorised to raise in capital. With respect to the state, of their affairs, that might be discussed in the com mittee of the whole house, to which his hon. friend had moved that the petition should be referred. As to the budget, it was his inten→ tion to-morrow to move for the papers which ought long ago to have been on the table of the house, and which it was not his fault were not So. Mr. Peter Moore observed, that the company were precluded, under two acts of parliament, from extending their debt beyond a certain sum. An act, of 1793, bound them to extend it no farther than 1,500,000/: but an act of the very next year allowed them to increase it to 3,000,000l. That debt remained to this hour undiminished; and the act of parliament was as imperative against their extending their debt now, by the issue of bonds, as by any other mode. It was for the house to consider how far it was wise to extend the existing limitation; but certainly it ought not to be done without a full investigation of the company's affairs.-The petition was then referred to a committee of the whole house. Thursday, July 16-Mr. Gront moved the order of the day, for the second reading of the East India company's bonds bill. On the question being put, Mr. Creevey rose, not to negative the second reading of this bill, but to move that the second reading of it be put off, till the East India accounts now printing, should be in the bands of members. The house was not in possession of any documents to prove the expediency of agreeing to such a measure. This was the first instance in which that house had been called upon to pass such a measure, without previous enquiry into the grounds upon which it was founded, by hav§ B2 ing |