far to make him credit the statement of the right hon. gent. (Mr. R. Dundas.) The bill was then read a third time. On the question that the bill do pass, Mr. W. said, that observing the hon. gent. to whom he alluded, had preserved a determined silence, he must object to the passing of the bill. Mr. Johnstone felt himself tremely flattered by the appeal made to him by the hon. gent. opposite. Gentlemen, however, would recollect that he had always been impressed with a gloomy opinion on this subject. He confessed he did not at this moment look to the future situation of the company with a sanguine eye. By prudence and economy, he thought much might be done; but the company ought not, and could not, expect a great additional revenue. As much was already drawn from their territories as could be expected. It was therefore to economy principally they were to look for a change in their affairs. As to the support to be given to the inclination of his constituents, ten years hence, by the hon. general (Tarleton), he could only say, he hoped the hon. general would, at the expiration of that period, continue their representative. But at the same time, he had no hesitation in declaring it to be his fixed opinion, that the preservation of our empire in that quarter of the globe depended on the preservation of the company. the company's affairs, provided only that the investigation were to be conducted not by party prejudice, but with fairness and impartiality. No subjećts more required to be treated dispassionately and without aggravation. To consider them in any other way, must be productive of mischief, rather than of beex-nefit, yet he was sorry to observe that. the hon. gent. (Mr.Creevey) had indulged himself in statements which appeared chargeable with exaggeration, and to be in some points the result rather of ignorance than of knowledge. With respect to the desire shewn of passing this bill through the house, before the accounts of the Indian budget could come under consideration, it arose merely from an expectation that the session would be a very short one. The Indian accounts of the two last years had not been long in the pos session of the court of directors, and the hon. gent. himself ought to know from experience the difficulty of such an arrangement of those numerous documents as should put them in a fit state for the consideration of the house. that with all the diligence that could be exerted, it was found impracticable to place them on the table in a printed state, before the time at which it was necessary to proceed with the present bill. The papers of the first year he hoped would be laid before the house to day, those of the second were in a state of forwardness, and would follow in a few days; but if this bill were to wait for the discussion of them, the object proposed by it might be defeated. There were besides, documents already before the house, which sufficiently shewed the ground of the present application of the company to parliament. The prospective account of these The following will be found a more correct report of the speech of Mr.Grant, on the second reading of this bill than the one given at p. 20. Mr. Grant, in reply to Mr. Creevey said, he had often, when Indian subjects were before the house, expressed his readiness to go into a full investigation of those subjects, and of The fact was, home home receipts and payments, from March, 1807, to March, 1808, laid before the house last session, shewed a deficit of above 2,200,000l. It was to provide for this deficit that the company applied, not for any grant of money, as might be misconceived from the honourable gentleman's mode of speaking, but for leave to issue bonds to the amount of two millions, instead of raising that sum by an increase of their capital stock, to which stock they had already a power from parliament to add two millions, equivalent to nearly four millions sterling. But though they possessed this power since the year 1797, they had declined, and still wished to decline using it, because during war stock must be funded to a disadvantage, and therefore money procured in this way would cost them a higher rate of interest than they would pay on their bonds, besides entailing on their affairs an additional amount of capital, of which they could not hereafter divest themselves, whereas they could pay off their bonds whenever it suited their affairs. And this also furnished an argument against the hon. gent.'s reasoning, because bonds could only obtain a loan during the pleasure of the holders, who might claim payment whenever they thought fit. This was therefore a case different from any of the former applications of the company, alluded to by the hon. gent.-for the company here asked for no extension of credit, they asked merely to be allowed to raise, by bond, part of that sum which they already possessed a power to raise by stock, and which they could now raise by stock, if they thought fit. The hon. gent. had endeavoured to shew that this power to raise more stock had been given to the company as a commutation for raising more money by bonds, which, according to him, they were unable to do, even when the issue of bonds was under two millions; but here he was entirely mistaken, for the application of the company for that power to increase the stock, appeared, from the journals, to have been made on this general ground, "that the affairs of the petitioners required a permanent advance of a considerable sum of money beyond what they could raise under the powers then vested in them by law, and the petitioners conceived that the money so wanted by them, should be raised by an increase of the capital stock." The company, moreover, as would be seen by their annual accounts, were empowered and able to raise three millions by bonds. The hon. gent. had stated that the estimate for 1807-8, shewed a loss by their commerce of above two millions. This was a very gross error. There was no loss on their commerce, but a gain. The account was not a statement of profit and loss, but a prospective estimate of expenditure, and of ways and means for the ensuing year. The deficit it exhibited determined nothing as to the general result of the company's affairs; only the expected receipts and expected payments in one year. And the deficit arose not from their commerce, but from the remittance of large supplies of goods and bullion in three successive years, 1803, 4, and 5, to India, for the purposes of investment and liquidation of debt, which remittances had been applied in a great degree to defray the expenses of the wars in which the company had come to be involved in India, without their orders, and contrary to their wishes. Оп account of these wars too, the re turps turas of investment from India were less than usual, and from the state of the continent of Europe, had come to a worse market than usual, the company's warehouses being now stocked with goods, for which, if there had been a ready sale, time enough to meet their exigencies, the present application *for power to raise money by bonds, might not have been necessary. With respect to that part of the Indian debt which the hon. gent. called a floating debt, and by which it appeared he meant the part claimable in England, or the decennial and optional loans, though it was undoubtedly a very serious consideration, it could not come suddenly and all at once upon the company. The first of the decennial loans was two millions, and not due till 1810. The optional loans bearing the large interest of India and not being transferable to England, at a high rate of exchange, were not likely to be transferred thither in a mass, and before there was a provision made for their payment. At the same time, nobody contended that it was not of the greatest importance to the company, that some plan should be adopted for the liquidation of the Indian debt, though it was not then the moment to enter into that subject. The debt was enormous, and the great difficulty with which the company had to struggle.-But it had not attained its present alarming height by measures for which the directors were responsible. As to failure of expectations, formerly held out by a noble lord at the head of the Indian department, it was fair to the company to say that those expectations were stated to be on the supposition of a permament peace, and were defeated by the long European war which followed the French revolution, and by succes sive wars in India, all which had entailed prodigious expenses on the company both at home and abroad. The return of peace in India however, certainly afforded hope that the present embarrassments of the company would be but temporary; for considerable retrenchments in the expenditure were now going on in India under the administration of sir George Barlow (whose conduct in adopting the pacific system of lord Cornwallis, after having before acquiesced in the foreign policy of lord Wellesley, Mr. Grant defended against the observations of Mr. Creevey) and the advises from thence held out the expectation of a surplus of revenue after defraying all charges and the interest of the debt. That the peace of India would be permanent, Mr. Grant said he had not taken upon him to assert. He had spoken of what might be hoped for if peace continued; and as to its continuance, though undoubtedly the native powers must have greatly alienated from us by the course of policy and war which the British government had recently pursued there, and they might then be far more ready, under new and encouraging circumstances, to act against us, yet at present they shewed no disposition to break with us, and were, indeed, reduced in means. We also had professedly resumed apacific system, and our manifesting a determination to persevere in it might have a tendency to conciliate them. Dr. Lawrence having in his speech insinuated that Mr. Grant had inconsistently departed from the language held in the third report of the directors, and the opinions he had given in that house respecting the measures of Lord Wellesley, Mr. Grant replied that he was no party to the third report, not having concurred in it, nor having having been a member of the court when it was brought forward; and as to late measures in India, when they came to be discussed, it would be found he had not uttered his sentiments regarding them. Friday, August 7. EAST INDIA BUDGET. Mr. R. Dundas rose, pursuant to notice, to move a resolution pledging the house to take into consideration, early in the next session, the Accounts relative to the Revenue Charges and Commercial Concerns of the East India Company, presented on the 10th and 18th June last, commonly called, the Accounts of the East India Budget. It would be impossible in the present session to give to this subject the ample consideration to which it was entitled, and therefore he thought it better to postpone the statement and discussion till the next session. After some observations from Mr. Creevey, who reserved to himself the right of going into farther particulars than the mere East India Accounts commonly called India Budget, the resolutions were agreed to. On the motion of Mr. Dundas, several additional papers, illustrative of the conduct of the government of India towards the Polygars, were ordered, with the design of giving the fullest and fairest view of the Polygar question, Mr. Creevey stated, that when the Polygar question should come to be discussed, he meant to contend that the conduct of the British government to the Polygars had been the cause of the mutiny at Vellore; one of the regiments concerned, the second battalion of the 23d native infantry, having been recruited in the Polygar country. On the promise of the right hon. gent. opposite to bring forward such accounts as had been, or should be received on that subject, and from a wish to await the arrival of those most materially interested in the transaction, he should not now offer the motion of which he had given notice for this day. He however gave notice, that early in the ensuing session he should move that there be laid before the house copies of all letters written by Marquis Cornwallis on the subject of the subsidiary treaties concluded by marquis Wellesley, and generally on the administration of India, by that nobleman. Proceedings at the India House. A meeting of the proprietors of the East India company was held at this house. The minutes of the former meeting being read, and agreed to, The Chairman moved that the minute of the last meeting of the court of directors, by which it was ordered that the dividend on the stock of the company for the last half year be 5 per cent. be agreed to. Mr. Rock said, it was apparent, from the state of the company's revenue, as standing on the face of the account last presented to the court, that there was a great deficiency of the revenues of the company for that year, to the amount, if he recollected it, of upwards of 2,000,000l. He wished, therefore, to know on what ground it was stated, that a dividend to the proprietors, to the extent of 104 per cent. was to be made. Mr. C. Grant observed, that from the low tone of voice in which the worthy proprietor had expressed himself, he (Mr. Grant) was not surprised that the hon. chairman, who sat next him, had not been able to make out the nature of the worthy proprietor's objection. He (Mr. Grant,) how ever, was prepared for it. It amounted to this, that a dividend of profits had been declared, while, at the same time, on the face of the accounts, there appeared a deficiency. The hon. deputy chairman, on the other hand, to meet the objection of the worthy proprietor, begged it might be recollected, that by the act of parliament, specifying the mode of ascertaining the dividends, such were to be settled by the mercantile, and not by the territorial profits. The deficiency for last year was entirely territorial, and would fail to be made up from the territorial revenue of a subsequent year. On the mercantile concerns of the company a profit to a greater extent than the dividend allowed had been realised; the dividend was, therefore, strictly confor mable to the act of parliament. Mr. Rock again alluded to the deficiency, and contended, that by the act, when any deficiency occurred, no dividend was to be declared for that year. Mr. Grant once more asserted that the act had reference to mercantile, and not to territorial profits. The motion was then carried, Mr. Rock alone dissenting from it. On the motion of the chairman, for reading the resolution of the court of directors, declaring that neither the proprietors, the captain, nor crew of the company's ship the Gauges, were at all implicated or culpable in the 3 of that ship, it was ordered that a ballot of the court of proprietors do take place on that subject, on the 20th of December, 1808. MISSIONARIES TO INDIA. Mr. T. Twining rose, and spoke to the following effect.---I am a stranger, Sir, to the rules of this court, but if the present is the proper, morient for noticing a subject not regularly te dhe |