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concerned, we may from the present moment, indulge better hopes, peace having been actually concluded with the Mah. rattas, and the impediments to our sales not being, it is to be presumed, in nature permanent; but having recalled to the recol lection of the house the principal points on which this important question must hinge, gentlemen will feel, that the detail will be more satisfactorily discussed in a future year, when advices shall have been received of the orders having reached India, and of the proceedings of the supreme government thereupon.-Upon the whole, I trust,the several accounts I shall now move for, accompanied by the explanations I have thus had an opportunity of submitting to the house, will satisfy parliament and the public: Ist, Of the peculiar and highly commendable accuracy, observable in the estimates prepared by the officers of the East-India Company, both under the heads of revenue and charge, trying them by the test of the actual accounts for the same year, after the whole receipt and expenditure had been precisely ascertained, and only making a reasonable allowance for extraordinary expence, occasioned by events which, from their nature, could not have been either foreseen or calculated upon, when the estimates were prepared. 2d, That none of the assurances given to parliament on the subject of Indian finance, if fairly stated and correctly understood, have been disproved by the event; on the contrary, that it is manifest, from the revenues having more than covered the territorial expenditure, during ten years of the most expensive war, that every expec

tation of aid to the public finan ces from India would have been fulfilled to the utmost, had we remained at peace, or even had the scale of our war expenditure not been aggravated, far beyond what the European war alone, at its outset, gave us reason to apprehend, by expensive expeditions, fitted out in India on the public account, and by wars with the native powers. 3d, That, notwithstanding the period now under consideration has been one of heavy pressure upon the commercial and territorial interests of the. company, both being exposed to all the increased embarrassments and expence inseparably connected with war; the general state of their affairs, upon a comparison of debts and assets, is, upon the whole, not impaired, whilst their empire has been carried to an extent which leaves them nothing to fear from any enemy on the continent of India, and opens to them new sources of prosperity, which cannot fail largely to ope rate on the return of peace. That the resources of India should be such as to enable it, whilst there yet remained formidable competitors for military dominion in that part of the world, to support its own wars, upon an average of years, out of its own revenues, is a triumphant fact to be enabled to state on the part of a dependent branch of this empire. I doubt whether the financial means of any other government would, under similar circumstances of pressure, present a similar result for an equal number of years of extended warfare. Parliament, from the means of information it possesses, will justly discrimi nate between the expectations it may safely form with regard to

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the resources of India in a period of peace, as contrasted with one of war. They will have now before them a faithful statement of the estimates, and the result of the last ten years; and I trust these documents are not less calculated to justify the official state ments which have been annually submitted to their notice, than to inspire the empire at home with a just confidence in the extent and stability of our Indian resources. I shall now, Sir, conclude with moving, that there be laid before the house, 1st, "An account, shewing the estimated and actual revenues and charges in India, with the results of ten years, from 1793-4 to 1802-3, after deducting payments on account of interest or debts, and supply to Bencoolen, &c. exhibiting likewise the decrease or increase of the debts, distinguishing each year." "An estimate of profit and loss on the Company's sales in England and other profits for ten years, ending 1st March, 1804, with other payments in England deducted therefrom, distinguishing each year, and distinguishing, as far as may be, such charges as are of a political, from those that are of a commercial nature; and also, distinguishing the India from the China account." 3d," An account of the total amount of the company's debts and assets abroad and at home, including China, the former from April, 1793, to April, 1803, and the latter from March, 1794, to March, 1804, both inclusive, distinguishing each year."

2d.

Mr. JOHNSTONE said, that notwithstanding all the statements made by the Noble Lord, he could not but contend, that the whole shewed that every thing he had advanced on the subject was

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strictly true. After the Noble Lord had made his annual statement in the form of an Indian budget, he now came forward with, a new set of accounts unknown to any one but himself, with which, he most ingeniously pretended to combat arguments urged against the old ones. He thought such a mode of proceeding was unparlia-. mentary and uncandid. It was also unprecedented, except in one instance, and that was of his predecessor, who came to the house and argued strenuously from a letter of the Duke of York, which he had in his pocket, and which nobody had seen but himself. He maintained, that the florid pictures of the state of the Company's affairs which had been drawn formerly by the predecessor of the Noble Lord, and was now presented to the house by the Noble Lord himself, was fallacious, and consequently delusive to that house, and to the public. When these statements were annually given in to parliament, the same promises of reduction of debt and increase of revenue above the expenditure were uniformly made by the person, whoever he was, whose duty it was to open the India budget to the house. The Noble Lord had evidently changed his ground, by bringin forward new statements for ten years after he had given in the usual annual accounts. He thought, therefore, that the Noble Lord should perform the promises which he had already made, and make good his former estimates, before he laid any hew accounts before parliament.

Lord CASTLEREAGH Genied, that in what he had said he was either unparliamentary or uncandid." lie would have thought he was uncandid, if he had moved for the accounts without explaining why

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The CHANCELLOR of the ExCHEQUER said, he should only trouble the house with a very few words. His noble friend (Lord Melville) had stated, that his expectations respecting the partici pation were not likely to be disappointed, unless there should be a war on the Continent; but he had said, at the same time, that to a certain extent they would. It was for the house, therefore, to consider how far circumstances had happened, which had a tendency to affect materially the Company's revenues. All the declarations and promises of Lord Melville were made expressly exclusive of a war in India. It was now ten years since they were made, and there had been a rebellion fully as expensive as a war; besides the different expeditions fitted out by the Company in aid of the public service, there was the expedition to Manilla, and the expedition to Egypt, the last of which cost upwards of two millions, and for both of which the Company have an unsettled account and claim against the public. The present object of his noble friend was not to bring for ward new accounts. It arose from the gentlemen opposite hav ing taken occasion to compare the different accounts of ten years, and to urge them in argument, as best suited their purpose. His noble friend wished for such an account as would give a recapitulation, in a clear point of view, of the different accounts it referred to.

he had done so. The gentlemen, tion respecting him would no mon opposite had all along complained be resorted to. of the inaccuracy of the accounts, and he wished to have one where the whole might be seen together, and errors, if any there be, more easily detected. His lordship, in explanation, then recapitulated several of his former statements. Mr. WALLACE begged leave to say a very few words, relative to one assertion which had been made of the Noble Lord's predecessor having said, that at a par ticular time the public had a right to a participation of the Company's revenues, under all circumstances, whether there was war, or whe ther there was peace. He had taken the trouble to investigate this point, and he found, on referring to a speech of the Noble Lord's predecessor, which he deTivered in 1796, in which he then referred to another speech made by him in 1794, these words, "it may be asked, if there be such improvement in the company's revenues, why does not the public participate " He answer. éd, because no such promise was made but under certain conditions; and in his speech of 1794, he had expressly excepted the interference of war. He had, in short, uniformly contended, that the participation in a considerable degree depended on the continuance of peace. He was surprised, he said, the honourable gentle man should maintain the contrary; it was impossible the Noble Lord should have used such an argument as, that war or peace would make no difference in the affairs of the Company. He was a man of too much good sense to entertain such an idea for a moment, and he hoped that asser

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Mr. PRINSEP then rose and entered into a long detail on the state of India affairs for several years past. His remarks

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were directed not only to the policy, but the commerce of the Company in its different relations. They were so minute and circumstantial, however, and so closely connected with the history of the Company, that we cannot pretend to enter into them at any length. He particularly stated, that the sanguine hopes held out to parliament and to the country, of the Company's being no only able in time to defray their territorial expences, but to contribute also to the strength and resources of this country, had been hitherto illusory. The language used by the Noble Lord's predeces sor had been as flattering as that of the noble lord possibly could be. When that noble lord presided at the head of India affairs, he had made a supposition, that even with fifteen millions of debt, the affairs of the Company might be conducted with advantage. This, the honourable gentleman said, had merely been stated as a supposition, and of what might be done in case of the worst, but not with any idea that the debt would ever amount so high. What conclusion, then, he asked, must we form now that the debt is accumulated to a much greater sum, and is so far beyond an amount which that noble lord had calculated on as the highest possible? If in the course of ten years we had increased the debt - from seven to twenty-one millions, what expectations could we form of diminution in future? The Noble Lord's predecessor had looked forward to a period of 10 years, and had given a statement of what he thought would then be the case; but if they might judge from facts, he had been very much mistaken indeed. The Noble Lord now at

the head of India affairs, the hos nourable Member thought, was proceeding in nearly a similar manner; he was holding up hopes to the house which, if any judgment might be formed from the past, would never be realized. It was not his design, however, to attach any particular blame to the measure now proposed by the motion before the house. The debt of the government formed a part of the assets, but he would have had those, he contended, inde pendently of that debt. It was not his design to move for any committee of inquiry; he wished only for farther explanation,which was certainly not by any means unparliamentary. He did not wish either that it should be understood as his opinion, that the validity of the Company's credit was not good. On the contrary, he looked forward to years of prosperity. If properly conducted, he thought India presented a glorious prospect. It was able, as the Noble Lord had truly said, to support its own wars; and though it created a million of debt annually, it was still productive of very great advantages. The commercial returns, however, to this country he thought were con sidered as an object of too great importance. There was no policy, he insisted, in increasing those returns, in many instances, to a useless degree, by the system of borrowing in India. To proportion the commerce to the actual capital, would be every way more advantageous, as by this means also more attention could' be paid to the carrying trade, which he thought the most profitable. Instead of this, however, the carrying trade was discouraged, or at least was permitted to go

into the hands of foreigners, as the Americans had chiefly engrossed it, and by this means a portion of British capital that might be very usefully employed, was lost to the country.

Mr. GRANT began by observing that the topics which the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Prinsep) had been pleased to bring before the house, relating chiefly to the sources and effects of the Company's commerce,) were certainly of great importance and difficulty; he was unwilling at so late an hour, and with so thin an attendance, to go at large into the various points which the Honourable Gentleman had touched upon, but something might naturally be expected from him in reply to the extraordinary assertions advanced by that Honourable Gentleman, assertions with which he totally disagreed, and which he hoped to shew were totally unfounded. In the complex system of the company, comprehending both large revenues and extended commerce, it was indeed hardly possible always to discriminate accurately in their Indian accounts, what exclusively belonged to the one and what to the other. Both revenue and commerce having been considered in India, as the united concern of one and the same body, the receipts for each went into the same fund, the issues for each out of the same fund, without distinguishing exactly how the accounts stood between the two branches. And without knowing this, how could it be known what part of the loan of any year should be charged to commerce, what to general purposes? It was, however, very practicable to bring into one view what had been for

a course of years the receipts and the issues on account of commerce, and thereby to determine what assistance it had on the whole received during that period from the revenue. Such an account he had made it his business to form; and he hoped it would, with other documents, also prepared by him, and of the accuracy of which he was well persuaded, serve to confute the positions advanced by the Honourable Gentleman. The Honourable Gentleman had maintained, that the revenue of the Company had been applied to their commerce, that the commerce had in the last ten years, ending with 1803, occasioned loans in India to the amount of 16 millions sterling-that unless the commerce had taken this money, it need not have been borrowed; that the interest of the Indian debt is therefore chargeable to the commerce; that moreover, the commerce of its accounts were stated in a mer cantile way, would be found to have been a losing one, so that instead of a profit of 7 millions in six years, as the directors state, if interest, charges of merchandize, and insurance be deducted, there will be in those six years a loss of two millions and a half, whilst by reason of this preposterous mode of carrying on trade by Indian loans, the debt has in ten years increased from 7 millions to 21 millions. Sir, (continued Mr. Grant,) I have now in my hand an account stated between England and India (so far as relates to the Company's concerns,) for 15 years, from 1788-9 to 1802-3, wherein on the one side, India is credited with all the investments sent within that pe

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