od from thence, and from China: to England, (including the cargoes which may have been lost on the way home,) and with the Indian charges merchandize, not inserted in the invoices, which the Honourable Gentleman supposes to be left out of view; and on the other side, India is debited for the proceeds of all the exports, stores, and bullion received in India and China, (not for any that may have been lost on the way out,) and for the amount of bills drawn from both countries on England, within the same period, the result of which account is this: Total amount of cargoes out, 25,279,808 Bills drawn from India and China 18,074,029 Balance 46,973,820 43,353,837 £3,619,983 Deduct further balance of political receipts and disbursements in England on account of the territory in India Remaining balance against England or the commerce in 15 years only 5,231,899 388,084 These statements, Sir, entirely overturn the assertions of the Honourable Gentleman that the commerce has been carried on by a revenue capital, that it has occasioned loans to the extent of sixteen millions, and is therefore chargeable with the interest of those loans. But it may be said, that as the revenue accounts laid from time to time before parlia ment, shew on the whole a surplus in the last ten years, after defraying civil and military charges and interest, where then could be the occasion for borrowing, unless to carry on the commerce? In answer to this, it is to be observed that there are a variety of disbursements not included under the head of charges on the reve nues. To enumerate all these exactly, would require an ana¬ lysis of all the payments made in India for the period mentioned, which would be a work of labour and research, but from an account recently made up with care, though for want of time not carried into every minute particular, we are able to account within two millions and a half, for a the receipts on whatever accou in India, for the last ten years, ut The amount of the receipts, including surplus of reve- is 30,577,491 (including attach upon it, and the interest paid in England is charged in the home accounts. 2,705,677 The charges 6,960,000 28,053,477 L.2,524,000 which may be made up from such beads as the following; losses by captures of ships in India; losses by accidents in the commercial and other departments; supplies to Prince of Wales's island, and the Andamans, &c. whereof the particulars have not for want of time yet been collected. And in this way, the whole increase of the debt since 1793 (11,500,0001. not 14 millions as the honourable gentleman states,) is to be accounted for, without charging it to the commerce, which at the most can only be accountable in the last ten years, to the joint heads of surplus of revenue, and other receipts from loans, &c. in the sum above stated of 2 millions and a half, but that also had been laid in by the balance in favour of commerce in the 5 years preceding 1793, and was further more than equalized by the exports from England in 1803-4. The honourable gentlean has stated the company's commerce to be a losing one. He has supposed the accumulated expences of Indian interest, charges merchandize, and insurance to attach upon it, over and above the charges exhibited in the profit and loss of account. From what has been already said, it is plain the capital of the commerce is not borrowed in India, therefore Indian interest cannot merchandize of the factories and establishments in India (not included in the invoices), are also brought to account; and as to insurance, if it is to be charged on the goods, the company who are their own underwriters must have credit for the amount of premiums, which will come to the same thing as if the insurance were not charged at all. Upon these fair data, the company's commerce will be found to be a gaining one; not the China commerce only, but the Indian. By an account made up for the last 15 years, the profits amounted to £15,759,734 From which dividends hav ing been paid to the amount of 10,216,901 And for various aids to guvernment 285,259 To commanders of ships 355,190 With regard to the account of Stock by Computation, it does contain the result of the general receipts and issues of the company's affairs, and comprehends all their receipts from loans and profits, though they are not, and cannot be exhibited in detail, (it will be found agreeably to what has been above stated,) as the honourable gentleman requires, from the nature of that account, which is an abstract account. Passing over other things mentioned by the hon. gentleman I shall only say a few words on what he has advanced respecting the carrying trade of India. He complains, that the Parsees, Arabs,and Americans, are engrossing that trade. Should we, Sir, desire to exclude the Parsees and Arabs from the trade of their own shores? They possessed that trade for centuries before us; and now they prosecute it to the benefit of our settlements, where only they can find protection, and where they and their riches must at length settle. With respect to the Americans, certainly the manner in which they conduct their Indian trade, deserves at a proper time serious consideration. The commercial treaty with them, gave them the privilege of a direct trade between America and our Indian possessions; not contented with that, they carry on a circuitous trade between India and Europe; this is an abuse which ought to be corrected. Dr. LAURENCE felt it his duty to approve of every attempt to investigate the affairs of that country, as there must, sooner or la ter, be a period when those affairs would press themselves on the house in a manner that could not be resisted. He thought it ominous, however, that no two persons in the house could be found to agree in their calculations on the esti mates laid before the house, or even in the figures that were submitted to them. The revenue and commerce, he thought, were so nearly connected, that no inferences could be drawn from them separately. One point in particular he thought pressed strongly on the house, and that was, whether they should rather leave the trade to others, than borrow to support it. A noble lord had mentioned 14 millions of debt as a very high sum, but even that they might be able to support, provided they had any security that it should not be much more. It was rather extraordinary, the learned member thought, that every thing should be represented in a very flourishing state, and yet that the debt at the same time should be so rapidly accumulating. He regretted the impossibility of moving for accounts to be made out in a certain way, which might render them more precise and intelligible. Lord DUNLO supported the statement, and could have wished that the honourable gentleman who undertook to arraign it, had paid a little more deference to candour and to accuracy. Lord CASTLEREAGH stated, that the commerce of India had sustained itself without any aid from the revenue, and that the commerce had derived no advantage from the wars in that country. The question was then carried, with an amendment by Sir W. Pulteney, that the accounts relating to China should be also distinguished from those of India. Lord Lord CASTLEREAGH also moved, "that there be laid before the house an account of the whole amount of the Company's debts and assets at home and abroad, including China, for the last 10 years, from April 1793, to 1803 and 1804, distinguishing such as bave been from 1803 to 1804." After several observations from members who had engaged in the previous art of the debate, the motion for the production of all the papers which the Noble Lord who opened the business had es plained, was carried without a di vision.-Adjourned. 1 APPENDIX. ACCOUNTS PRESENTED TO THE HOUSE OF COMMONS BY THE EAST INDIA COMPANY IN 1804. APPENDIX, No. I.-An Account, shewing the Estimated and Actual Revenues and Charges in India, with the Results, for Ten Years, from 1795-4 to 1802-3 |