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Sir Wm. Williams. If you save any man, this ought to be he. When your privileges were arraigned, he stood to you; he is but in the first and second commission; let him be left out.
Sir Tho. Littleton. I find it the disposition of the house to pass by this lord. But put the question solemnly; not to pass it off as if he were a great man, and had friends, and so left out.
Sir John Guise. I shall be as gentle upon this noble lord as any body. I cannot consent to excuse him, but put no question upon him.
Mr. Smith. I am ready to excuse this gentleman, if by vote, but not to excuse him by a vote will seem to the world as if he was guilty of no crime. I am satisfied he has deserved great punishment if his merits had not atoned for him. He has served the nation well in the Bishops case, and is a good Protestant.
Sir Robert Howard. I have heard from the bishop of London the great tenderness this lord showed in his case, and how he behaved himself in the public dispute, managed by Dr. Jane and Dr. Patrick, with the Jesuits. I would never put it to the question, but to have it marked as an ill thing to sit in the Ecclcsiastical Commission. but to say it is no crime, that is a fault. I would have these things applied to his pardon, not to his justification; therefore I would put no question upon him.
late stuck to this Commission, from first to last, with equal violence.--He was excepted. On the bishop of Rochester *.
Sir Wm. Pulteney. It is known to most how this bishop behaved himself. He was intreated by the bishop of London to stay in the Commission. He protected the Protestant religion, and I cannot reckon him so highly criminal.
*Nathaniel lord Crew. "He was lifted up with the Ecclesiastical Commission, and said, Now his name would be recorded in history.' And, when some of his friends represented to him the danger of acting in a court so illegally constituted, he said, he could not live, if he should lose the king's gracious smiles.' So low and fawning was he. At the Revolution he absconded for some time, and was waiting for a ship to get beyond sea, fearing public affronts, and had offered to resign his bishoprick, but was prevailed on to go to the house, and by voting the new Settlement to merit at least a pardon for all that he had done." Bur
Mr. Arnold. I wonder that the bishop, when we consider the worthy book he writ, the History of the Plot,' should find advocates here.
Sir Robert Cotton. He was a friend to the University and the vice-chancellor. Hle argued the injustice and unreasonableness of the proceedings of the Commissioners. He opposed every thing in the proceedings against Magdalen-College.
Mr. Baldwin. There is this farther to be said, that he deserted the Ecclesiastical Commission wholly, when they proceeded against Magdalen-College, and wrote a book against it.
Mr. Dolben. He acted with great zeal for the Protestant religion. He never gave his consent to one vote or decree of that Commission against the Protestant religion. He made it his business to defend it. Except acting in that Commission, he is guilty of ne fault.
On lord chief justice Herbert.
Mr. Howe. You have excepted him once; he is put into the Bill of Attainder. I would not worry a man that is gone out of the kingdoi.
Earl of Ranelagh. There is nobody in the house, but will say this was a crime in this lord; but whether he shall not be excepted out of the Indemnity for having sat in the Eccle- Mr. Smith. You cannot vindicate the jussiastical Commission, is the question.-Notice of the nation, if you take no notice of question was put upon the carl of Rochester.- him, when three witnesses have sworn, that he The earl of Sunderland was excepted by vote. is in Ireland, and he is put into the Bill of On the bishop of Durham *. Attainder. Sir Robert Howard. The bishop has gone through stitch which all the commissioners. He understood little law, and less gospel, but he was an ecclesiastical knowing man, who gave counsel to the lay lords. He went through all the Commissions, and in the last Commission of such an exorbitant nature, where every man's estate, liberty, and wife, were at their disposal. I was a trustee for the duke of NorfolkIn that court he took great consideration of the dutchess. In that court he gave her more than the marriage settlement. This pre
Mr. Howe. Something is to be said in his behalf. He left his place, because he would not give his Judgment against the deserters.— Lord chief justice Herbert was excepted. On the earl of Mulgrave †.
Mr. Howe. Nobody can think I can have had long acquaintance with this lord, but I have been well informed that all his life he has voted for his country's interest, though he was
*"Dr. Sprat, justly esteemed a great master of our language, and one of our correctest writers. He died in 1713." Burnet.
+"Lord Chamberlain to king James, and afterwards duke of Buckingham. He was apt to comply in every thing that he thought might be acceptable; for he went with the king to mass, and kneeled at it. And being looked on as indifferent to all religions, the priests made an attack on him. He heard them gravely arguing for transubstantiation. He told them, he was willing to receive instruction: he had taken much pains to bring himself to believe in God, who made the world and all men in it: but it must not be an ordinary force of argument that could make him believe that man was quits with God, and made God again." Burnet.
On sir Thomas Jenner.
Mr. Smith. I know not if ignorance and poverty may be an exemption from punishment; if it be an excuse for this man, he may claim it.
Sir Jonathan Jennings. He was so troublesome in the Ecclesiastical Commission at Magdalen-College, that the bishop of Chester and the Judges thought to put him out. He was excepted.
in court. He came in to the government in the late change, and did this king service. Let him pass.
Mr. Smith. His name is in the last Commission, and I know those injuries you have heard have been from those commissioners. If it appears that he was in the business of Magdalen-College, I am not for excusinghim. Let his quality be ever so great, if the country be concerned, I would not except him. Let any gentleman tell what he has done for the good of the nation, and I am for excusing him.
Col. Austen. I stand not up to excuse him; but from a great clergyman I have had it, that he stood for the Protestant religion.
Sir Wm. Williams. If any member can say he was more active than some you have excused, I would not pass him by. You find nothing in the Books of this man's actions. I would pass him by.
Sir John Guise. I have heard of good things he has done; he stood for us in the house of lords for the good of the nation.
Mr. Howe. This lord is not charged for acting, but for taking the Commission. He may pretend to as much favour as another. -He was not excepted.
On the earl of Huntingdon.*
Mr. Carter. I hope this lord will not appear to be the greatest offender. He came in to act in this Commission when the lawyers and bishops thought safe to act. He was well assured before he acted, and advised with severa! lawyers, who gave him encouragement to proceed. [He was called upon to name those lawyers.] He dissented in divers things that they acted against the Church; and before the bishop of Rochester came in, he dissented. I move, that he may not be excepted in the Bill.
Extract from the Treaty with the States.] July 2. Mr. Hampden acquainted the house, That, in Answer to their Address, relating to what number of Ships and of what Force, the States-General have set forth, or were obliged to set forth, for this Summer's Expedition with his majesty's fleet, his majesty said, all were come in, but two and ordered lord Nottingham to give an Extract of the Treaty with the States, which was as follows:
"The States-General shall put to sea 30 ships of war, viz. eight from 70 to 80 guns, seven from 60 to 70, and fifteen from 50 to 60 guns, beside 9 frigates and 4 fire-ships: on board of which shall be embarked 10,572 effective men."
July 3. Resolved, "That a second Address be presented to his majesty, for leave to inspect the Books of the Privy-Council, and those of the Irish Committee, and for taking copies of such Papers as relate to the Irish Affairs."-And a Committee was appointed to draw up the said Address, accordingly. Who were likewise instructed to enquire, why the Dutch Fleet was out no sooner to join the English Fleet. Also, why the English Fleet was laid up, and why there was a delay in setting forth another.
Resolved, "That an Address be presented to his majesty, That he will please to appoint a Fund of Credit, for such as will furnish Money for relief of the Irish Protestants fled into this kingdom;" which the house engaged
July 5. The Address was read and agreed to, for leave to inspect the Council-Books, and
learning. He was ambitious and servile, cruel and boisterous: and, by the great liberties he allowed himself, he fell under much scandal of the worst sort. He had set himself long to raise the king's authority above law; which (he said) was only a method of government to which kings might submit as they pleased; but their authority was from God, absolute and superior to law, which they might exert as often as they found it necessary for the ends of government.' So he was looked on as a man that would more effectually advance the design of Popery, than if he should turn over to it: and indeed, bad as he was, he never made that step, even in the most desperate state of his affairs. He, Wright, and Jenner, were the three Ecclesiastical Commissioners for visiting Magdalen College, and he, in particular, acted in so rough a manner, that it showed he was resolved to sacrifice all things to the king's pleasure." Burnet.
he spoke, was quoad hoc, to that Case; however, he gave what he had said, for his present thoughts and reasons.
to take copies, especially from Dec. 27, 1688, to June 1, 1689, in which, the deplorable State of Ireland was charged on the neglect, or ill conduct of some persons employed in the affairs of that kingdom. And the reason of this inspection is said to be, That we may be enabled to give your majesty such advice, as may prevent the like Miscarriages for the future.
same day, a Report was made of several children, educated in Popish Seminaries abroad, by direction of their parents and guardians. And leave was given to bring in a to prevent the like abuses, and oblige such children as were then abroad, to return.
Being withdrawn, it was Resolved, after a debate, "That the Orders and Proceedings of this house being pleaded to the jurisdiction of the Court of the King's-bench, ought not to be over-ruled."-Ordered, That sir F. Pemberton, and sir T. Jones, do attend the house again.
Reasons to be offered at a Conference on the Bill of Rights.] July 11. Mr. Carter reportBilled, from the committee appointed to draw up Reasons to be offered at a conference with the lords, on the Bill for declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject, and settling the Succession of the Crown;' That the said committee had agreed, as follows:
July 6. Colonel Birch made his Report, from the committee, appointed to examine the Petition of John Topham, esq. serjeant at arms; the substance of which was as follows: "That the said Topham being served with several actions of assault and battery, by certain persons he had taken into custody by order of the house, had pleaded obedience to the house, in justification: and that his pleas were, notwithstanding, over-ruled: Jeffreys, Holloway, Walcot, Pemberton, Jones, and Raymond, during the time of those several Actions, being Judges of the King's-bench." Resolved, "That the said different Judg-pensing Power has been assumed, within time ments, given in the King's-bench against the of memory. Because it hath unreasonably said Topham, are illegal, and a violation of the increased from time to time, to the overthrow privileges of parliament, and pernicious to the of multitudes of good laws. Because all laws, rights of parliament, and that a Bill be brought made for the benefit of Trade, may be thereby in, to reverse the said judgments."-Ordered, eluded, and monopolies erected. And, geneThat sir F. Peaberton, sir T. Jones, and sir rally, because the mischiefs, that have been F. Withins, do attend the house. consequent thereon, are so great, that the commons can find no remedy to prevent the same, but by insisting upon the clause, and proviso."
"That the commons do not agree with your lordships in the 1st Amendment, Skin 7, 1. 25. (relating to the Settlement of the crown in the Hanover line) for these Reasons: 1. That it is not contained in the Declaration, which was presented by both houses, to their majesties, upon their acceptance of the crown. 2. A farther limitation of the crown, may be dangerous, and of ill consequence.-To the last Amendment, they disagree, because the Dis
Ordered, That the Conference be managed by the said committee.
Judgment of the King's-bench, against a late Speaker, reversed.] July 12. The Record of a Judgment of the Court of King's-bench, upon
July 10. The Bill for an additional duty on Coffee, Tea, and Chocolate, under the title of An act for collecting the duties upon Coffee, Tea and Chocolate, at the Custom-House,' was passed, and ordered up to the house of lords.
Sir F. Pemberton and Sir T. Jones, examined.] July 10. Sir Francis Pemberton being desired by the house to give his reasons for over-ruling a Plea of the Order of that house, in the Case of Jay and Tophain, he replied, That he knew little of the Case, it was so long since. But, that in case the defendant should plead he did arrest the plaintiff by order of this house, and should plead that to the jurisdiction of King's-bench, he thought, with submission, he could satisfy the house, that such a Plea ought to be over-ruled: and that he took the law to be so very clearly. He then with drew. Sir Thomas Jones being then examined to the same point, was pleased to reply, That though it was long since the Case was argued; and that he, not knowing what he was to attend upon, could give no account thereof: but, that, if any such Judgment was given, he hoped it was according to law, as the matter was pleaded. And then he withdrew.-Sir Francis Pemberton was then again called in, and his Reasons being demanded, for his general assertion, beforesaid, he desired time to answer, both to the whole together, and the particular Case of Jay and Topham. But an immediate Answer being insisted on, he said, That what
Information against William Williams, esq. in the name of sir Robert Sawyer, attorney-general, being read, Resolved, "That the said Judgment, &c. for matters done by order of the house of commons, and against Wm. Williams, esq. as Speaker thereof, is illegal, and against the freedom of parliaments : and that a Bill be brought in to reverse the said Judgment."-Ordered, That sir Robert Sawyer do attend in his place, to give the house a particular account of the Orders, &c. he received for the said prosecution.
The King's Message for a Recess by Sir R. Howard.] Sir Robert Howard then informed the house, that he was commanded by his majesty to let them know, "That his majesty is very sensible of the great burden of business that has lain upon them; and, which he hopes is now near finished, that the country may receive the advantage of a Recess by the several members assisting in the settlement of public affairs; and also, that they may have the benefit by it, to take care of their own particular concerns. And that though his majesty believes, that this house is assured, that by
A debate then arose, touching an Address to be presented to his majesty, for removing the marquis of Halifax, and marquis of Carmarthen, from his council; but was adjourned.
Mr. Jephson's Vindication.] July 15. Mr. to-Jephson appeared in his place according to order, and acquainted the house, "That he had perused the Books by him kept while sethat,cretary to his majesty, and that he did not find any of the persons in dispute mentioned there." Whereupon the house was satisfied that there were no Passes granted to any of the said persons.
what preparations are made and must be con-
Report of a Conference with the Lords on the Bill of Rights and Succession. July 16. Mr. Carter reported from a Conference with the
Resolved, That sir Robert Howard do pre-lords on the Bill of Rights and Succession; sent the humble Thanks of the house to his That lord Rochester managed for the lords, majesty. Resolved, That a Clause be added and gave these Reasons for disagreeing with to the Bill for settling the Revenue, That the the house thereon.-" 1. Though in the Inlands and revenues, granted to, or in trust for strument offered to their majesties, the limitathe queen-consort of the late king James, be tion went no farther than their persons, yet in vested in their majesties, and that all acts relat- a law which has respect to all succeeding ages, ing to the same be repealed. And that the Re- and that settles for ever the Liberties of the Subvenue to be settled upon their majesties, be ject, they think it reasonable to carry the limifree from any charge, or incumbrances. tation of the Succession of the crown farther than was necessary in that instrument, in which the crown was offered to their majesties, and that had no view but of the Succession to their posterity. 2. They can see no danger, nor any ill consequences that may follow on a farther limitation, but very much to the contrary. For, 1. This secures the nation effectually from the danger of having a Papist to reign at any time hereafter: since of such a number of Papists as stand next the crown in the lineal succession, some might be prevailed upon to shew a change in their religion, if they had a prospect of succeeding to the crown, upon it; and no danger being so great as the having one who is a pretended Protestant, but is, in truth, a concealed Papist to reign over us, the most effectual way to secure our religion, is to declare the Succession in a family, that we know is certainly Protestant. 2. It is the interest of England, at present, to do right to that great house, by limiting the Succession according to the Proviso. For, since this limitation has been proposed, if it should be now laid aside, it would look like an excluding of this house, which might provoke them to take resolutions which might be of great prejudice to the nation in the present conjuncture.-And since for these Reasons, the lords insist upon their Proviso, the same Reasons determine them likewise to insist upon that part of the rider, which relates to it."-The question being then put to agree with the lords, in their Amendments, it passed in the negative, After which, farther Reasons were ordered to be pro
The King's Answers to two Addresses.] Sir John Guise then farther acquainted the house, That having waited on his majesty with the Address, for leave to inspect the Council-Books, &c. his majesty was pleased to answer, He would consider of it.' That he had likewise presented to his majesty the other Address, That his majesty would be pleased to appoint a Fund, for credit, for such as should furnish money for relief of the Irish Protestants fled into this kingdom, and that his majesty was pleased to say at first, 'That he liked it well.' That his majesty then asked the sense of the house touching that matter; and being told the Irish were in necessity, and that the house would take care to satisfy what was disbursed, added, 'That he would do what he could
in it.' A debate ensued on his majesty's Answer to the first Address, and then the house resolved,posed to be offered at a free Conference with nem. con. "That those persons who have the lords why the house did not agree to the been the occasion of delaying sending Relief said Amendments. to Ireland, and those persons that advise the king to defer the giving leave for some persons to inspect the Council-Books, &c. are enemies to the king and kingdom.”
July 13. Sir John Guise acquainted the house from the committee on the State of Ireland, "That it has appeared to them that several persons who are in arms in that kingdom, had been in custody here in England, and were released; and had Passes given them, and that Mr. Jephson, a member of this house, was then secretary; and that the committee had directed him to move that Mr. Jephson might give an account thereof to the house." And then the house made an Order accordingly. As likewise, that the auditor of the exchequer do bring an account of what Monies have been issued out of the exchequer for secret services, and to whom, since 1682.
The Duke of Schomberg takes leave of the House.] Sir Henry Capel acquainted the house, that the duke de Schomberg desired to have the honour to wait upon the house; that
bring in a Clause to the Bill for settling the Revenue, to repeal the Act which settles the Revenue upon the late king for life.
Report from the Council-Books, relating to the collecting the Customs and Excise.] July 25, Mr. Papillon reported from the committee appointed to examine the Council-Books, with respect to the collecting the Excise and Customs, from the death of Ch. 2. "That, with regard to the Customs, the commissioners who appeared at the Custom-House, from that time, were lord Cheney, sir Rd. Temple, sir Nich. Butler, sir John Buckworth, Wm. Dickenson, sir John Worden, sir Dudley North, and Tho. Chudleigh. That among other instances, Mr. Francis Miller informed the Committee, That being at the Custom-House, about a
fortnight after the death of king Ch. 2, and discoursing with the Commissioners, he told them, He was not free to pay the Customs, and had his fears of what might come thereafter. To which sir Nicholas Butler replied, 'That it was fears which brought on the last Rebellion.' This was confirmed by one Mr. Cutler.-Mr. Cockram said, That he and others being at the Custom-House with the commissioners, the said commissioners asked, What lawyers the merchants had advised with? And it being replied,They had as yet advised with none;" Sir Nicholas Butler rejoined, We know what you are: if you are ready to dispute it, we are ready to dispute it.' To which sir John Buckworth added, Do not dispute it! It must be paid.'-That as to the Excise they find a printed Proclamation dated Feb. 16, signifying that the Commissioners of the Treasury, viz. lord Godolphin, sir J. Ernley, sir S. Fox, sir Dudley North, and Frederick Hume, had farmed the Excise to sir Peter Apsley, sir Daniel Bathurst, and James Grabme, for 3 years, for the rent of 550,000l. That according to the Opinion of the Judges the said contract was valid in law, notwithstanding the death of the late king; and requiring all commissioners, sub-commissioners, and all other officers, to aid and assist in collecting the said duties during the said term.-That they find by a Commission, dated March 1, Jac. 2. sir Darcy Ashburnham, Francis Parry, Ch. Davenant, John Friend, Felix Calvert, Nath. Hornby, and Rd. Grahme, to be Commissioners and Governors for receipt of the Excise, &c. and all the said Commissioners had acted as such, &c."-The said Report was ordered to lie on the table, to be considered when the Bill of Indemnity came next before the house.
Reasons for not agreeing with the Lords Amendments to the Bill for an additional Duty on Coffee, &c.] Sir Jolin Trevor reported from the committee, the Reasons to be offered at a conference with the lords, for not agreeing with their lordships in their Amendments to the Bill for laying an additional duty on Coffee, Tea and Chocolate which were in substance as follow. 1. "The commons have always taken it for their undoubted privilege (of which they have ever been tender and jealous) that
he being just going in the service of the crown, on the Expedition to Ireland, he would very willingly acknowledge the care this house hath had of him, and the fruit he had received of it, and take his leave of them; that his merit was great, and that the king had rewarded it like a king; having made him a duke and peer of England, and settled 5000l. a year on bim and his heirs, in lieu of the like Revenues he had lost in France and Germany: two peers and two of the house of commons being named trustees, for the making purchases in order thereto. The duke being then introduced, sat down, covered, in a chair placed for him towards the middle of the house, where having continued some time (the serjeant with the mace standing at his right hand) he rose, and, uncovered, spake to the following effect:
"Mr. Speaker, I have desired this honour, to make my just acknowledgments for the great favours I have received from this house, and doubt not but to find the effects of it in his majesty's grace and favour; and also take my leave of this honourable house, being now going to Ireland, where I shall freely expose my life in the king's service and yours."
The Speaker then replied as follows: "My lord, the services that have been done by your grace to their majesties and this kingdom are so great, that they can never be forgotten: I am therefore commanded by this house to acquaint you that they are extremely satisfied that his majesty's army is committed to your grace's conduct; and they doubt not but the war will be prosecuted in such a manner as will fully answer all their expectations. This house doth likewise assure your grace, that, at what distance soever you are, they will have a particular regard, as much as in them lies, of whatever may concern your grace, or the army under your command."
His grace then withdrew, and Mr. Comptroller acquainted the house, that his majesty consented that the Council Books might be inspected, both as to the collecting the Customs and Excise, after the death of Charles 2, and in relation to the Irish Affairs.
July 19. Sir Francis Pemberton and sir Tho. Jones were severally examined, touching their Reasons for over-ruling the plea of serjeant Topham, to the action brought against him by one Jay, and ordered into custody of the serjeant at arms,
July 20. Sir W. Pulteney reported from the free Conference with the lords on the Bill of Rights and Succession, 'that the matter had been debated by both parties, and that there were hopes the lords would agree with this house, touching the said bill.
July 22. Sir Thomas Littleton reported the Reasons to be offered at a Conference with the lords, on the Bill for reversing the two Judgments of the King's-bench against Oates. But the whole case being hereafter recapitulated, we shall, for the sake of brevity, insert the said Recapitulation only.
July 24. Resolved, That leave be given to