The said bill was brought in by sir Edward Hussey. In the course of its progress through the house, sir Charles Sedley made the following speeches thereon: Sir Charles Sedley.† "We shall, I hope, return to our Vote, and make provision by a Bill, that no Member of Parliament may be concerned in the Revenue: For it sounds, Mr. Speaker, harsh, that the same men should be both givers and receivers of the Revenue. The worthy gentleman, that spoke last, tells you we can expect nothing toward this Supply from the Revenue, for that the ordinary Revenue will not pay the Civil List by 100,000l. I suppose he means the Civil List as it stands now. But there was not long ago an offer made by the courtiers, that the profits, fees and salaries of their respective offices and places exceeding 800 1. per annum clear money, should go toward the Charge of the war; and then I hope we may expect something. Sir Harry Vane did a thing of this kind in Cromwell's time, being then Treasurer of the Navy, he acquainted the house, that the profits of his office were too great, for any particular person, during such distress and calamity of the commonwealth, and desired he might have a convenient salary, and the rest go toward the charge of the impartial Proceedings in Parliament War. Now to find a whole set of courtiers as generous as I had ever yet known any one man, charmed me exceedingly; I think I broke into some raptures of kindness towards the worthy gentlemen who shewed such zeal for their master's service, and the defence of the nation, as to part with something of their own, as well as ours, for those public ends.-Mr. Speaker, the king and people have always the same interest, and it is not the king's to take one penny more from the people than will just carry on the government; it is the people's interest to give him full as much: but it is the courtier's interest to get all they can for him here, that they may obtain their request the more easily at Whitehall: That the interest of the king and courtier do sometimes differ, I think I can give you an undeniable instance: king Charles 2, when he came to the crown, had 360,000l. per annum in land; it was certainly the interest of the crown he should have kept those lands descending to him from his ancestors, that they might have been a constant support and supply for such occasions as could not wait the delays and method of parliaments; it was the people's interest that the king should have kept that revenue, for having so much of his own, he might lie the less heavy upon them: Yet the courtiers prevailed, and got away that whole "The same unwarrantable inclination to some got credit by exposing the government : extenuate and disculpate those in power, ap- and that to silence them they were preferred; pears yet farther, when he (bishop Burnet) and then they changed their note, and were as comes to speak of the Place Bill (to make use ready to flatter, as before to find fault. This of a more modern phrase) which the mal- gave a specious colour to those who charged contents, this session, brought into the house the court with designs of corrupting members, of commons: for, after having allowed, that the or at least of stopping their mouths by Places majority of that house were under a corrupt and Pensions. When this Bill (continues his influence, after having expressly declared, that lordship) was set on, it went through the house the Speaker himself was the factor between of commons with little or no difficulty: those the court and the members in that corruption, who were in places, had not strength and creand after acknowledging, that he had made his dit to make great opposition to it, they being complaint of it to the king in person, who jus- the persons concerned, and looked on as tified it from the necessity of his affairs and the parties: and those who had no places, had not depravity of the times, and, notwithstanding the courage to oppose it; for in them it would the concessions he makes, as he goes along, he have looked as an art to recommend themspeaks of that measure in these words: "When selves to one. So the Bill passed in the comthe party, that was set against the court, saw mons; but it was rejected by the lords, since they could carry nothing in either house, then it seemed to establish an opposition between they turned their whole strength against the the crown and the people, as if those who were present parliament, to force a dissolution: and employed by the one, could not be trusted by in order to that, they first loaded it with a the other."-This is his lordship's whole acname of an ill sound: and, whereas king count of that matter, but not all that ought to Charles's Long Parliament was called the 'Pen- be said concerning it. It was called, · A Bill sioner Parliament,' they called this the Of touching free and impartial Proceedings in ficer's Parliament,' because many that had Parliaments;' it was brought into the house of commands in the army were of it: and the commons by sir Edward Hussey, one of the word that they gave out among the people, members for Lincoln; and it was founded on was, that we were to be governed by a Stand- the Votes of the old Whigs in that house, during ing Army and a Standing Parliament.' the reign of Charles 2, when a corrupt influence They tried to carry a Bill, that rendered all in parliament began first to be felt, and when Members of the house of commons incapable the fatal effects of it seemed to be really apof Places of Trust or Profit; so that every prehended: so much tenderness was, however, member that accepted a place, should be ex- shewn to the present members, that it was not pelled the house, and be incapable of being to be in force till his majesty thought fit to call chosen again to sit in the current parliament. a new Parliament." Ralph. The truth was, it came to be observed, that + Sedley's Works, vol. ii. revenue in a few years, devouring not only the income but the very stock of their master's liberality; and, as I humbly conceive, contrary to the interest of both king and people, and even of all succeeding courtiers; whom we find since quartered upon other branches of the revenue. King James thought 500l. per annum sufficient for the gentlemen of his bed-chamber; certainly that salary may suffice a man that has an estate of his own already, and is as much as any waiting man can pretend to for his service.' per annum, toward the next year's Charge. This, if really intended, was very generous; but if it were only a compliment, shift or expedient, to avoid the present Vote we were upon, That no Member of Parliament should be Receiver of the Revenue, nothing was more disingenuous; nor could a greater abuse be offered to the house, for we proceeded so far as to vote, That Judges and some others should not be comprehended. People abroad that received our Votes will think strangely of it, if, after all those preparations, we do nothing in it, and suffer ourselves to be thus gulled: but I hope better of the worthy gentlemen, and cannot but think they were in earnest with this house upon so solemn a debate." from The Earl of Mulgrave's Speech thereon]. Dec. 22. The bill touching free and impartial Proceedings in Parliament, was sent up the commons, in which several persons in Employments both military and civil, were incapacitated to sit in the house of commons, which caused it to be very much opposed by the lords that stood up for the court; though on the other hand, several peers spoke vehemently for it, and among the rest the earl of Mulgrave; who upon this occasion made the following memorable speech: Sir Charles Sedley*. "I believe, Mr. Speaker, when we come to consider of it, we shall find that it is convenient, not only to lessen the Officers of the Court, and State, in point of profit, but in point of number too; we have nine Commissioners of Excise, seven of the Admiralty, three of the Post-Office, six of the Customs; I know not why half may not do the business as well. But when I consider all these, or most of them, are Members of Parliament, my wonder is over; for though it may be a dispute, whether many heads are better than one, it is certainly true, that many Votes are better than one: many of these gentlemen have two offices besides their seat in parliament, which require atteudance in several places, and abilities of divers natures; but members of parliament, though well "My lords; This debate is of so great conprincipled, have no privileges to be fit for any sequence that I resolved to be silent, and rathing without practice, study, or application.ther to be advised by the ability of others, than Sir, we are called by the king, and sent up by the people, and ought to regard no interests but theirs; which, as I told you before, are always the same; let us therefore proceed accordingly. The late proposals of the courtiers themselves, to save the king Money, was, by applying the profits, salaries and fees of their places, that exceed 800l. per annum, to the War; thus will the public charge lie easier upon the people, and the present reign be more and more endeared to them. What is necessary we shall chearfully supply, when we see all men set their shoulders to the burden, and stand upon an equal footing for our common defence, and that what we give, is applied to those uses for which we give, and the Army paid. This offer, sir, as I remember, began when an observation was made by you of the long Accounts, and that a great part of the king's Revenue remained in the hands of the Receivers; to which a worthy member answered, It could not be helped, by reason some Receivers were members of parliament, and stood upon their privileges. To which another member answered, That we could not deprive members of their privilege, but that to remedy the like for the future, we were ready to pass a Vote, that no Member of Parliament should be a Receiver of the king's Revenue. This alarmed the whole body of men in office; so that some stood up, and (to prevent the house from harping any longer upon that string) said, They so little valued their own profit, that they were willing to resign all their fees, salaries, and perquisites, exceeding 3001. * Sedley's Works, vol. ii. to shew my own want of it; besides it is of so nice a nature, that I, who speak always unpreineditately, apprehend extremely saying any thing which may be thought the least reflecting; though even that ought not to restrain a man here from doing one's duty to the public, in a business where it seems to be so highly concerned. I have always heard,I have always read, that foreign nations, and all this part of the world, have admired and envied the Constitution of this government. For, not to speak of the king's power, here is a house of lords to advise him on all important occasions, about peace or war, about all things that may concern the nation, the care of which is very much entrusted to your lordships. But yet, because your lordships cannot be so conversant with the generality of the people, nor so constantly in the country as is necessary for that purpose, here is a house of commons also chosen by the very people themselves newly come from among them, or should be so, to represent all their Grievances, to express the true mind of the nation, and to dispose of their Money, at least so far as to begin all bills of that nature; and, if I am not mistaken, the very writ for elections sent down to the sheriffs does empower them to chuse; What? Their Representatives.Now, my lords, I beseech you to consider the meaning of that word, Representatives; Is it to do any thing contrary to their mind? It would be absurd to propose it: And yet how can it be otherwise, if they, after being chosen, change their dependency, engage themselves in employments plainly inconsistent with the great trust reposed in them? And that I will would not only refer himself to one of your own servants, or the king's commissioners in the case of the crown? And if he chuses rather some plain, honest friend of his own to supply his absence here, will any man blame such a proceeding, or think it unmannerly?-Besides, your lordships know even this Act admits them to be chosen, notwithstanding their Employments, provided the electors know it first, and are not deceived in their choice. All we would prevent is, that a good rich corporation should not chuse to entrust with all their liberties a plain honest country neighbour, and find him within six months changed into a preferred, cunning courtier; who shall tye them to their choice, though he is no more the same man, than if he were turned papist, which by the take the liberty to demonstrate to your lord- I ships they now do, at least according to my humble opinion. I will instance first in the least and lowest incapacity, they must be under, who so take employments.-Your lordships know but too well what a general carelessness there appears, every day more and more, in the public business; if so, how is it likely that men should be as diligent in their duty in parliament as that business requires, where Employments and a great deal of other business shall take up both their minds and their time. But then in some cases it is worse, as in Commands of the Army, and other employments of that kind, when they must have a divided duty: for it does admirably become an officer to sit voting away Money in the house of commons, while his soldiers are perhaps tak-law, as it stands already, puts an incapacity ing it away at their quarters, for want of his upon him.-Another Objection is, that this Act presence to restrain them, and of better disci- may by its consequence prolong this parliapline among them; nay, perhaps his troop or ment, which they allow would be a very great regiment may be in some action abroad, and grievance, and yet suppose the king capable of he must either have the shame of being absent putting it upon us, which I have too much from them at such a time, or from that house respect for him to admit of; though I am glad where he is entrusted with our liberties. To however, that it is objected by privy-counthis I have heard but one objection by a noble sellors in favour, who consequently, I hope, lord, that if this Act should pass, the king is will never advise a thing which they now exnot allowed to make a captain a colonel, with- claim at as so great grievance.-But pray, my out disabling him to sit in parliament. Truly, lords, what should tempt the king to so ill a if a captain has only deserved to be advanced policy? Can he fear a freedom of choice in for exposing himself in parliament, I think the the people, to whose good will he owes all nation would have no great loss in the king's his power, which these lords suppose he letting alone such a preferment.-But, my may use to their prejudice.—And therefore lords, there is another sort of Incapacity yet give me leave to say, as I must not susworse than this, I mean that of parliament pect him of so ill a design as the permen's having such places in the Exchequer, as petuating this parliament, so he cannot, he the very pront of them depends on the Money ought not to suspect a nation so entirely, I was given to the king in parliament. Would any going to say, so fondly devoted to him.-My of your lordships send and entrust a man to lords, no man is readier than myself to allow make a bargain for you, whose very interest that we owe the crown all submission as to the shall be to make you give as much as he can time of calling parliaments according to law, possibly? It puts me in mind of a Farce, where and appointing also where they shall sit. But, an actor holds a dialogue with himself, speak-with reverence be it spoken, the king owes the ing first in one tone, and then answering him- nation entire freedom in chusing their repreself in another.-Really, my lords, this is no sentatives; and it is no less his duty, than it is Farce, for it is no laughing matter to undo abis true interest, that such a fair and just proBation: but it is altogether as unnatural for a ceeding should be used towards us.-Consider, member of parliament to ask first in the king's my lords, of what mighty consequence it may name for such a sort of Supply, give an Account be, that so many Votes should be free, when from him how much is needful towards the upon one single one may depend the whole paying such an Army, or such a Fleet, and security or loss of this nation. By one single then immediately give by his ready Vote what vote such things may happen, that I almost he had before asked by his master's order. tremble to think: by one single vote a General Besides, my lords, there is such a necessity Excise may be granted, and then we are all now for long sessions of parliaments; and the lost: by one single vote the crown may be very privileges belonging to members are of so empowered to name all the Commissioners for great extent, that it would be a little hard and raising the Taxes, and then surely we should unequal to other gentlemen that they should be in a fair way towards it.-Nay, whatever have all the places also.-All the Objections has happened may again be apprehended: and that have been made may be reduced to these: I hope those reverend prelates will reflect, that First, It is told us, that it is a disrespect to the if they grow once obnoxious to a prevalent king, that his servants or officers should be ex- party, one single voice may be as dangerous to cluded. To this, I desire it may be considered, that Bench, as a general dissatisfaction among that it is in this case, as when a tenant sends the people proved to be once in a late expeup any body to treat for him: would any of rience; which I am far from saying by way of your lordships think it a disrespect; nay, would threatening, but only by way of caution. My the king himself think it any, if the tenant lords, we may think because this concerns pot other party took an occasion from an objection they made (to wit, that this Act might by its consequence prolong this Parliament, which they allowed would be a very great Grievance) to bring in and pass another Bill, for the frequent calling and meeting of parliaments: which they sent down to the commons, Jan. the 21st, for their concurrence. But the king having no mind to part with this parliament so long as the War lasted, refused his Assent to Amendinents made to it by the commons. We must not, however, forget that Jan. the 3d, when the Negative was put on the first of those Bills, the dissenting lords entered the following Protest : the house of lords, that we need not be so over careful of the matter; but there are noblemen in France, at least such as were so before they were enslaved, who, that they might domineer over others, and serve a present turn perhaps, let all things alone so long till the people were quite mastered, and the nobility themselves too, to bear them company.-So that I never met a Frenchman, even of the greatest rank, (and some had 10,000 pistoles a year in Employments) that did not envy us here for our free-this Bill, although the lords had agreed to the dom, from that slavery which they groan under; and this I have observed universally, excepting just M. de Louvoy, M. Colbert, or such people, because they were the ministers themselves who occasioned these complaints, and thrived by the oppression of others.-My lords, this country of ours is very apt to be provoked: we have had a late experience of it: and though there is no wise man but would bear a great deal rather than make a bustle, yet really the people think otherwise, and, at any time, would change a present uneasiness for any other condition, though a worse; we have known it so too often, and sometimes repented it too late. Let them not have this new provocation, in being debarred from a security in their Representatives; for malicious people will not fail to infuse into their minds, that all those vast sums, which have been, and still must be raised towards this War, are not disposed away in so fair a manner as ought to be and I am afraid they will say, their money is not given but taken. | However, whatever success this Bill may have, there must needs come some good effect of it: for if it passes, it will give us security; if it be obstructed, it will give us warning:" Protest thereon.] The courtiers however being numerous, (Contents 42, Proxies S. Notcontents 40, Proxies 7; Majority 2.*) the The earl of Mulgrave, who had more distinguished himself by his eloquence in this debate than ever, was induced to print his Speech, which was every where received as if it had been a new Revelation." Ralph. "Because the principal Objection made to this Bill was the great danger that might happen thereby, of the too long continuing this present Parliament, which is an ill consequence that we can no ways apprehend, since we hope and humbly conceive, his majesty will never be capable of taking any advice of that kind, so plainly destructive to the subjects just rights of election to frequent parliaments, and so many ways inconsistent with the good of this nation. 2. Because we are not only very sensible of the just occasion given for such an Act (though we are loath to enlarge upon so tender a subject), but have good reason to believe the house of commons would not have begun and passed a Bill of this nature, wherein the members of that house are so particularly concerned, without having been fully satisfied in the reasons for it, and plainly convinced of that great need the people of England are in, at this time, of so Just and wise a Provision. (Signed). Warrington, Thanet, De Longueville, Weymouth, Montagu, Denbigh, Fitzwalter, Cumberland, Rivers, Vaughan, Sandwich, Clifforde, Stamford, J. Arundell, Mulgrave, Marlborough, Cholmondeley, Carnarvon, Aylesbury, Ashburnham." Admiralty of persons of known experience in Debate on advising the King respecting the Admiralty.*] Jan. 10. Sir F. Winnington reported the several Resolutions agreed to by "The Bill was ordered up to the lords on the the Cominittee, To the first Resolve, viz. 22d of Dec. The first reading produced nothing" That the king be advised to constitute an extraordinary; but on the second, when a motion was made by the malcontents for committing it, notwithstanding all the efforts of the courtiers to over-rule it, the former carried their point by a majority of 9 voices; nor was this all; for in the committee they were still triumphant: and even on the report, when the court exerted their whole strength, of the lords present, 42 were for the Bill, and only 40 against it; so that the scale was turned by the Proxies; of whom the court had 7, and the opposite lords but 3: difference upon the whole, two. Every body that knows any thing of parliamentary affairs, knows, that ministers esteem such a division as this, an escape, rather than a victory; and surely this was one of the narrowest that ever befel any ministry whatever: besides, the vanquished party rallied the most considerable persons of their corps, among Sir John Lowther. The Hollanders, in whom there is no want of diligence, &c. have lost as many ships as we, even whole fleets of merchants, and their convoys, taken at once; and yet nothing is objected against their Admiralty. The commissioners had no opportunity to clear themselves, being, only generally charged. Sir Robert Cotton. The Miscarriage of our whom, it is most remarkable, was prince George of Denmark, duke of Cumberland, and entered their Protests on the Journals of the house." Ralph. * Sent to Mr. Anchitell Grey, by Mr. Wilmot. merchants was, that having insured, they ran for markets, and saved themselves well enough in the whole, though often they miscarried; and they might often have had convoys, but would not stay for the abovesaid reason. There is not a sufficient number of proper cruising ships for convoys. The Vote passed in the committee without other faults mentioned, and the gentlemen of the Admiralty are of great integrity. Mr. Howe. I think the fault not in the Admiralty-Board, and therefore it is improper for a hurt in the leg, to lay a plaister to the arm. Now they have gained experience at our cost, I would not lose their service, for some of them have had good experience. I am for a particular Vote to be put on each of them. | lesser, for cruising, set not out early enough. When the great ships did come in, the havens were filled before with the Virginia Fleet, and others; which havens were the proper ones for the great ships., The Admiralty have broken the public faith of the nation, not observing the king's Proclamation; which promised that seamen should not be turned over; yet they are. Lord Falkland spoke very handsomely; making use of much that was said by others in behalf of the Admiralty: but, as to what Churchill said, he answered, Some of the great ships did come in early, and Churchill's ship for one; the rest were ordered, by the queen and council, to stay out. As for turning over seamen, some came in so very early, that they would have lain at great charge; and therefore another Proclamation was issued out for turning them over. Colonel Churchill again stood up, and excused lord Falkland, as having better experience than the ignorant major part which govern. Sir Tho Littleton. I am of opinion that fidelity and diligence (allowed by all that speak against them) will master any difficulty in this, or any other office. Oliver Cromwell, when applied to by any person, to be employed in any office, by several, by their respective friends, used to say, Who will give me his Sir Robert Rich recriminated on the offihand, and say that he will engage that the per-cers of the Fleet, (with intimation more partison to be employed, shall be faithful to me cularly, that Churchill was faulty) that they and my government?' I think those gentleinen pressed men, and took money for discharging such, for my part, to the government. Sir John Guise. Never Fleet was set out earlier, nor better provided, than ours the last year. In the former session, the gentlemen of the Admiralty moved to have some cruising frigates built, to secure the Trade, but the house, for want of some formality, denied their desire. Sir John Dorrell. No fault was found in the Admiralty, when lord Torrington was beaten, and faults there really were; but now our affairs have prospered, we find fault. Against the Admiralty. Sir John Guise. I have nothing to object against their integrity, but the advice which came from the committee mentioned, That they should be of experience.' Col. Granville. I must lay before the house the great loss of Ships on the coast of Cornwall, last year: 40 sail were lost on that coast, and not one cruiser there for us. Our ships were taken in sight of the shore, and no colours seen on the coast, but those of the ene mies. Sir Christ. Musgrave. I cannot agree That industry and fidelity are qualifications for any employment,' particularly not for this of the Admiralty. Some, in their behalf, said, 'They had not the sole power and ordering of the Fleet; but I say, they have the same power that the Admiralty ever had, and they do not exercise what they have, but order Petitions to go to the Secretary's Office. I am for advising the king, as thought well of in the committee, for such advice will injure no inan of expe rience. Col. Churchill. Those that serve in the Fleet see daily their want of experience, and the great ships stay out too long, and the VOL. V. them. Mr. Hutchinson divided the question into two; which the house yielded to. The first question was, "That the king be advised to constitute an Admiralty of persons of known integrity and experience in maritime affairs." The 2nd, "That all Orders for the management of the Fleet shall, for the future, pass through the hands of the commissioners of the Admiralty."-The first question the house disagreed to, 135 to 112. The second passed. A Bill for frequent Parliaments brought into the House of Lords.] Jan. 16. The house of lords went into a grand committee upon the Bill for the frequent calling and meeting of Parliaments,' which had been brought in by the earl of Shrewsbury. They agreed, that a parliament should meet every year, and that there should be a new one every three years, and then came to the Clause, which declares, That, if the king should not order new writs to be issued out, the lord chancellor or commissioners of the great seal should do it by their own authority under severe penalties. But this was postponed, and they proceeded to the next point, which was, when the present Parliament should determine; some proposing one, others two, and others again three years; but this debate was adjourned. Jan. 18. The lords in a committee of the whole house went through the said bill, and ordered it to be engrossed. It enacted, that there should be a new Parliament every three years, and meet every year; and that the present Parliament should continue no longer than till the 1st of January following. Reasons for not agreeing with the Lords in an Amendment to the Land Tax Bill.] Jan. 18. The following Reasons were given by the 3 C |