been very great; and yet I am persuaded that | hope we shall be quicker in our resolutions. the experience of this summer is sufficient to Several things retard our proceedings: one is, convince us all, that to arrive at a good end of Places. A noble example lately of my Lord it, there will be a necessity of increasing our Keeper, in disposing his Places! I wish all Forces both by sea and land the next year. Places were well filled, and that men would not Our allies have resolved to add to theirs; and thrust themselves into Offices, and never look I will not doubt but you will have such regard after them. It is high time to come to some to the present exigencies, as that you will give Resolution. We have more enemies than we me a suitable Supply to enable me to do the had last year. I move, for your reputation, like. I must therefore earnestly recommend that you will resolve to support the king, and to you, gentlemen of the house of commons, to defend the government, and assist them in a take such timely Resolutions as that your Sup- parliamentary way for carrying on the War plies may be ellectual, and our preparations so with France, and supporting the king. forward, as will be necessary both for the secu- Sir Tho. Clarges reads part of the king's rity and the honour of the nation." Speech reflecting on the Miscarriages.—I am Debate on the King's Speech, and the Mis-sorry any body should be so unhappy as to carriages of the Fleet.] Nov. 13. Mr. Foley. The king's Speech is short, but of two parts, viz. the Disadvantage our Forces have had at Land, and the Miscarriage at Sea. Considering the time of the year, and the condition of the Navy, that is the greatest consideration, and first to be considered. But before we give Supply, the condition of affairs is to be considered, and the Miscarriage the last summer. They cannot excuse themselves. Our enemies are enriched by our losses. If the Miscarriages had been before considered, it might have prevented much. We had a powerful Fleet; had they done their duty, they might have destroyed the French Fleet; but instead of that, we have had great losses, and are become a scorn and contempt to other nations. We do not our duty to the king, and the nat on, and what all the world expects from us, if we examine not the Miscarriages. But before we can know where to lay the fault, it is requisite that we have the Papers before us. I move for a short day to consider the Miscarriages of the Fleet, and Navy-Affairs. Mr. Charles Montagu. I like what is moved; and for what day you will appoint, I am as ready as any body. I am one of those that think you have been downright betrayed. I know not who did it, but am sure it is strange, that the French king should leave 500 miles of his shore exposed, and draw off all his fleet: that plainly shows he had some good assuran ces. But I would not postpone the greatest matter. The king says, the enemy is stronger than he considerably in land-forces,' and that was the only reason of his disappointment. Some of our countrymen did not behave themselves so well as they should. But, being deserted by the Foreigners, it is no wonder that they shifted for themselves, for their own safety. I have observed, that the English are contrary to all the world; they are frighted into their wits. A party was suspected formerly to carry on popish designs; another complied with the present temper, popery: whereas, then we had no Deliverer. We must not ex pect another Deliverer. I wish gentlemen would lay aside all little heats, and fooleries, and lay their hands to the great affair. If we do not suddenly provide for our safety, the enemy will be much forwarder than we. I prostitute the honour of the king. Where the reputation of the king sinks, the king sinks with it. Unhappy ministers that advised the king to head such armies, as are not for his reputation! If they think they can be governed without him, they may say they will not be governed with him. Kings formerly had their council with them in foreign Expeditions. This may be the last meeting in this assembly, if we provide not better for our safety. Littleton told you, That, formerly, the Pensioners perverted good laws; pray God it is not so still! I find some, who arraigned the former times, now in Offices; generally such people are distrusted. The Trade of the nation is gone, and Land will be worth nothing, if Trade be not supported. By trade, London makes up your rents. I always told you, that our safety is the Sea. In 1692, the Navy was two millious in arrear. It was said heretofore, That we should be Monarchs of the Sea;' but for all I see, we are like to be vassals, and bow to other nations. I hope you will particularize the Miscarriages, You have lost a million of capital stock in the city of London, besides the ships you have furnished to your enemies. It is come to a moot point, whether we shall save England or Flanders. I think we are undone, if we go not by the ancient way of parliament, to address that our Grievances may be redressed before we give Aid; which is the natural way of aiding the king. The king told us, when he came over, That we should make such laws, that we should never fear our liberties;' but God knows, we are betrayed; and if there be such unhappy men to take Money to betray their country, find them out. We have some resemblance to the first Christianity, where were twelve Apostles, and one of them was a Devil: he kept the Purse; for thirty pieces of silver he betrayed his master: and that will betray us, and by that we shall lose, all our privileges. I should enlarge farther, but I hope gentlemen of greater abilities will supply me: But I move, as before, for a day to consider the Miscarriages of the Fleet. Sir John Thompson. All of us come here full of affection to serve our king and country; but it must be confessed, that never parliament was under such discouragements as we are; but would it not grieve any Englishman, that the treasure of the nation should be spent in such extravagant bounties, and Pensions to Foreigners? A man must no more talk of Miscarriages at court, than of news in the camp. Do but consider the last session; our Bills for the Security of the Nation, all proved abor(tive. Though we have had so many gracious promises, they all languish under disappointment of performances. Have we not seen preferments, as if the displeasure of this house were the greatest letters of recommendation? Lord Torrington was questioned, and tried for his life; yet he brought home the Fleet. Admiral Russel fought and was accused when he came home. I hope, whatever is said abroad, that persons will not be so mollified with Places, as to betray their country. Sir John Lowther. Upon the deliberation of the house all will depend. Miscarriages have been unfortunate, but must be proved, and then I shall concur to punishments. But do not judge men before they be heard. They are said to be Judas's, because they carry the Purse.' As to Offices, can the nation subsist without Offices? If you can find honest officers, encourage them; if otherwise, prove them, and make them examples to others. What will men think of us, if, in these great exigencies, we complain, and no more? The Treasury have had no assistance from the Commissioners of Accounts. When we consider, that the last money came short; we can never answer it to our country. We in our ports, when the enemy was at sea! I am indifferent which question you put first; whether you will examine the faults, or give the king Supply. Do all the parts requisite to the government, and take the questions together, and I hope you will not preclude any thing; but, amidst your discontents, do not ruin the nation. Sir Edw. Hussey. In the last session, the Triennial Bill was rejected: I would know who advised that, and the delay of the Smyrna Fleet? Former parliaments had Grievances redressed before they gave Money. I move to consider the Miscarriages of the Fleet last Summer, &c. On the Miscarriages of the Fleet. Sir Edw. Seymour. It is a great dissatisfaction to enter into this debate. One consideration weighs more with me than all; without Supply, for support of the Government, we are lost. Here is an Account prepared for you, to see that the Money is not mis-spent, for the use of the nation. I say, with the greatest sadness, that we have lost the discipline of the Fleet, and, I am afraid, our honour too. The house will never go along chearfully, till enquiry be made into Miscarriages. Words have done no good, of a vigorous War against France; but I fear it may be termed a vigorous war against England. I move to add to the question, That we will support the Government to the utmost of our power.' Colonel Titus. A great sum was given last year to set out the Fleet, which brought home nothing but infamy. The Fleet should have convoyed the Turkey fleet out of danger, and it convoyed them into danger. They fiddled and danced at Torbay, and we must pay the music. If you enquire not into these Miscarriages, you will be as popular a parliament as the fleet is a fleet. But be angry and sin not,' and revenge the quarrel upon yourselves. Your case now is to satisfy your justice, and provide for your safety at the same time. But it is an affront to the government to take care of Trade, and none of the government; therefore, I would put in the words, &c. Sir Christ. Musgrave. Shall it ever be said, to the disgrace of the house of commons, that we do not examine Miscarriages? The affections of the people are not changed to the king, but accidents in government that prove unfor tunate. You are told, If you have not a greater care than formerly, your Money will be of no effect;' but let us not be ensnared by any Vote to take away the freedom of debate. I conclude, For the preservation of the Government, and Trade of the nation.' Mr. Howe. I think none so simple as to think an English parliament will not support an English government. The words offered for the question are so large, they include all things. I will not say, nor any man, there are not Miscarriages; but they must not be called misfortunes. I think the opposition of the two violent parties is equally honest, and equally well intended to the government. I care not which is uppermost; if they be uppermost they care not what becomes of the government, if they have safety in their own animosities. It is to this we may attribute all our misfortunes. Let us show the nation, that it is worth preserving. As to the faults of the Fleet, one part lies upon one, and another upon another. Prop the building first, and then enquire where the defect is. Resolved, nem. con. "That this house will support their Majesties and their Government, and will, on Wednesday next, enquire into the Miscarriages of the Fleet the last Summer; and take into their consideration the preservation of the Trade of the nation." Ordered, "That the Commissioners of the Admiralty, who are members of this house, do, on Wednesday next, inform the house, why the Streights Fleet was stopped till the main Fleet went out. 2. That the Admirals, that commanded the Fleet last Summer, and sir George Rooke, and the Turkey Company, or such as they shall appoint, do attend this house on Wednesday next." Debate on the Miscarriages of the Fleet.] Nov. 15. The Turkey Company, according to order, gave an Account, at the bar, of the Orders for the sailing of the Fleet, and the number of Dutch and English ships for the Convoy. Sir George Rooke informed the Speaker by letter, that he was very ill, and could not at present attend the house. So he was ordered to attend, together with the other Adinirals, on the 17th. Nov. 16. Mr. Foley, from the Commission ers for taking the Public Accounts, presented to the house a State of what Money had been given for maintenance of the Fleet during the War, and what they had received thereof. Sir Tho. Clarges. Misapplication of Money by assignments. But one reason may be, the Treasury cannot resist superior commands; and one great reason of this misapplying is, the Commissioners of the Treasury are not upon oath. Formerly, in king James 1's time, there were Commissioners of the Treasury, till a Lord Treasurer was named, but now not to be upon oath, and to have the disposition of all the king's treasury! I hope you will consider of it. At the grand committee for the Fleet, I believe there was a million owing to the Navy. All issues are for service done, and to be done, and that makes the confusion. I hope, there will be remedy for the future. Many of the seamen take service from the king of France. If some remedy be not taken to provide for and encourage the seamen, they will desert. Nov. 18. Lord Falkland presented to the house an Estimate of the Charge of the Navy for the year 1694, amounting to 2,346,1327. for 118 ships, and 40,000 men. Resolved, "That 400,000l. be granted to their majesties, towards a Supply for Maintenance of the Fleet for the year 1694." Nov. 20. Lord Falkland. We have now an Admiral, and are without a Secretary. If Mr. Russel be put in, the Secretary (Nottingham) will go out. The Commissioners of the Admiralty sent for an account of the execution of their orders; and that account was not sent for a long time after. They ought either to have executed their orders, or sent word why they did not. Two things were to be considered by the Fleet, the coast of England to be guarded, and the Streights fleet. They knew nothing of the Mediterranean fleet, nor the Brest fleet; and so the admirals did neither. If orders were found impracticable, with res Mr. Montagu. I suppose no man can ex-pect to the Board, they ought to have had pect any great matter from a Paper read, as has been said, tumultuously. I have been but two years in the Treasury, but I find the great occasion was, the first year of all, a great debt was left upon the Navy.-And so went on upon that subject. Several of the Treasury, and Commissioners of Accounts, spoke to it. notice. The council of war thought them im- Ordered, "That the Admirals do attend to Nov. 17. The Turkey Company presented to the house a Narrative, in writing, of what they declared on Wednesday at the bar of the house.-Lord Falkland presented also several Papers relating to the Instructions and Orders concerning the Turkey fleet, &c. And the Ad-morrow." mirals, that commanded the Flect last summer, being called in, delivered the results of the Council of War, and a Narrative of their Proceedings, &c.-Sir George Rooke, being so lame of the gout, that he could not stand, was brought to the bar in a chair, where he delivered a Narrative of his Proceedings, &c. And (in respect of his indisposition) he was then dismissed for the present. · Resolved, "That, upon examination of the Miscarriage of the Fleet, and the loss the Turkey Company hath sustained this Summer, this house is of opinion, That there hath been * Viz, Adm. Killegrew, sir Ralph Delaval, and sir Cloudesley Shovel, Adm. Russel having been dismissed.“ Killegrew and Delaval were thought so inclinable to king James's interests, that it made some insinuate, that the king was in the hands of those who intended to betray him to his enemies. For though no exception lay against Shovel, yet it was said, 'That he was only put in with the other two to give some reputation to the commission, and that he was one against two; so that he could neither hinder nor do any thing.' The chief blame of this nomination was cast on the earl of Nottingham." Burnet. Nov. 21. Admiral Killegrew gave an Account of what lord Falkland charged, and Rutter's Information was read. He was ordered to be sent for, and confronted with the Admirals.-Captain Kerr, who took Rutter. 'He gave no Account to the Admirals of the Brest fleet being out, nor to me, nor to any of my pany. I took him pretending to exchange prisoners at Nantz, but he brought Currants from Nantz,' &c. Sir Tho. Clarges. By the Act, there is to be no correspondence with France, and this Rutter was employed to exchange prisoners, and then falls to trade with France, with currants from Nantz. He tells you a story, but that has little weight upon me, if he be not a man of credit. How many have sworn in Westminster-hall, and yet stood in the pillory! Mr. Hampden. I have observed, that an unreasonable defence, as well as an unreasonable accusation, will prejudice a man. I never saw this Rutter, but you have his Examination, and his Answer, upon oath. It seems, it is thought slight because Rutter gives it. I observe, that it is strange, he should be so long with the admirals, and not utter six words of These words were retained in the question, on a Division, 140 to 103. the Brest fleet being out; which makes me think him not so candid and ingenuous as he should be. As I would accuse nobody, so I would condemn nobody, hand over head. Sir Tho. Littleton. Rutter might hear at Nautz that the French fleet was laid up. He says, upon oath, It was not so much as enquired by the admirals, what became of the French fleet.' Mr. Montagu. I would have Rutter's Information read, because some heard it not. It was a little too forward, to accuse Rutter before you heard him. Mr. Foley. I have read Rutter's Affidavit, and I think it is the fairest way to have Rutter and the Admirals face to face, and then you are ripe for judgment. I would send for Rutter presently. Rutter's Information was read, and he was ordered to be sent for. Sir Edw. Seymour. Since observation has been made, why the admirals did not confront the evidence sooner, (I would ask,) whether they had any notice that such information was made? Without the best evidence in the world, I would not have the Admirals discouraged in their service. They were ordered to attend again the next day. Nov. 22. Mr. Papillon. The Admirals had nine weeks provision. The captains give still less provision in than they have. They have had, upon all accounts, rather more than Jess. Sir Christ. Musgrave. You cannot have who is in the right, or who is in the wrong, till you have the Account. There should be an indenture betwixt the purser and the victualler, who understands always the purser. There has been great clamour, that they had no victuals. Mr. Montagu. You have delivered your opinion, That there has been a traiterous Mismanagement, &c.' I think it proper to hear the Admirals; a thing so much discoursed upon! I believe the admirals are ready to give you account. Rooke's misfortune was the 17th of June. They came not till the 22d; and might have had beverage upon the Portugal coasts. The Admirals Killegrew, Delaval, and Shovel at the bar. The Speaker. What day did the three Admirals go on board the Fleet? The Admirals. "We beg the favour to have the questions in writing. We went on board the latter end of April." Question. From April to the 22d of May, what survey was taken of Provisions? Answer. "The ships were not all together; they were in several ports. We cannot make Answer to the survey, till we look over our Papers. There were 75 great ships at Spithead, on the 6th or 7th of May. It was the 13th or 14th before the Dutch came in." The Speaker. The house is informed, that, from the 6th of May to the 14th, the wind was fair to come before Brest, to prevent the French coming forth. Answer. "Our orders came not to our hands till the 20th. So great a number of ships do great mischief to one another, when the weather is not settled. Our orders were to take Rooke into our company. He answered,. "He wanted some Provisions.' He wrote to the Commissioners of the Admiralty, and we could not sail till the 30th. The wind was against us. Several ships were ready, but they wanted provisions. But it can never be expected, that we should keep account of our provisions. We issue out our orders to every flag, and they to the captains, who return the wants to the Admiralty-board." Question. To what time did the Provisions last? Admiral Killegrew. "It is impossible to give an answer to that. I hope this house will exact nothing impossible from us. We came to Torbay the 21st. We cannot carry numbers in our heads. We sent a particular account to the Admiralty of all ships, from Torbay, when we got all our ships together. We took account of the captains, two or three days after parting from Rooke. For account of Beer, we cannot rummage the ships; for other Victuals, we took account but in part." Question. When you were surprized that your Instructions were contrary to the Council of War, did you represent it? Answer. "We received our Orders the Col. Cornwall. They were ready, with a 20th, and called another Council of War, and fair wind, from the 6th of June to the 14th.resolved to sail the 24th; but the wind was not Why so great a fleet as 75 capital ships, and make no use of that wind to go over to the coasts of France? M. Tourville was not ready to come out. This I take to be the ground of all, not hindering the enemy from coming out: and, instead of that, did not sail till the 3d of May. Sir John Parsons. This will appear a lame excuse of the Admirals. They were ordered four months provisions. Mr. Wharton. I am of opinion with Parsons, That want of Victuals is a lame excuse.' I would ask the Admirals, when they parted with Rooke, whether they took any survey of what Provisions they bad on board? good; and hearing nothing from the Council, we supposed them to be their orders. We took it to be our duty to obey orders. We thought it not fit to capitulate. When we had positive orders we must obey." Question. Why did you part with the Turkey Fleet, before you knew whether the French were come out? Answer. "We had Instructions to go as far with Rooke as we thought necessary; and the Resolution of the Council of War was our opinion. Though we knew the French Fleet was out, yet we were to obey orders. We find we are mightily blamed for our orders to Rooke. All our opinions were, that it was an all desire to give our Answers to the questions in writing."-They withdrew. Lord Falkland. They answer, They had no Orders till the 19th of May.' It is true, there were no orders till then for Rooke; but they had orders, in March, That they should do their best to annoy the enemy.' They tell you, They had no account of their Provisions but at random.' But did ever men go to sea, without knowing what provisions they had on board? It is easy for a man to know from the pursers. They tell you, They were surprized with the Orders of the 14th;' and they say, It was not their business to capitulate.' They had the Turkey Fleet in their hands. They say, Their orders were not practicable; and yet not represent it! We never heard this the 15th of May, nor the 23d. We never heard of it till July. How could we give those orders, without knowing whether the French Fleet was out? There was no impossible thing required of them, the wind and weather permitting. Their fault was, they did not know whether the French Fleet was out, and not they that gave the Orders. Sir John Parsons. This might have been easily rectified, without rummaging the ship, by the purser's Indentures in kind, credit, and ready money. I was formerly a commissioner of the Victualling-office, but now a contractor. I thank God, I was no commissioner during these miscarriages. Sir Christ. Musgrave. I have heard the Commissioners of the navy make great complaint of the Victuallers. You are told of credit, and ready money.' I think it no great 'credit' for Papillon to imitate Parsons. There is something of this that we do not know, which I would enquire of from the commissioners of the navy. I would know, from Falkland, whether all were ordered to go together? I think it was the opinion given by all the flag-officers, to deliver to the Admiralty what their opinion was. Upon the 19th comes the Order, by his majesty's command, before whom this opinion of the council of war was. I wonder that an order came, and no notice taken of their opinion, a thing of so great weight! Upon this order, transmitted to the Admiralty, they conclude to conduct the Turkey Flect to Ushant. Now, in business of so great moment, why were not their directions from the Admiralty? There were no Instructions before the separation. But I think it was to justify themselves, come what will. I think the order was a very lame order. If the resolution was not well grounded, they ought to have had a better. Lord Falkland. They had full power to sail when they thought fit. We have no reason to think the orders were not practicable, because they said they would be executed. We could not know whether the French Fleet was got out; but they should have known it. This is only that we should be kept in the dark. This shows they would neither obey the orders, nor represent them. Mr. Smith. Supposing the orders ambiguous, they never sent to desire those orders to be explained; but sailed away without it. Mr. Montagu. You have examined the Admirals to one particular point. The excuse, in defence of the adinirals, is, That they had not Provisions:' if they had, then it is their fault. Pray first consider that. You have asked the admirals several Questions. They make exact Answers to some things, and are short in others. To take account of provisions, surely, is not the part of an admiral.” If they had had their quantity, they might have fought the French fleet, and then any country would have given them credit. I propose this question, That there was a sufficient quantity of Beer to convoy the Turkey fleet out of these seas.' 6 Sir John Lowther. None of the victuallers say the Fleet had four months provisions. When the lords of the council went down to the Fleet, they were so far from being victualled, that they were still carrying on board. Lord Falkland. The admirals confessed they had 48 days Beer on board. Mr. Foley. I find, upon the whole matter, that one third of the victuals were not delivered in kind. They had all other provisions; but the Beer is the question. The Return made by the pursers to the Admiralty, was 43 days provision. They might have fallen in with Rooke, at that time. But I observe that this survey of the Beer was not till the Admirals parted from Rooke. The mischief of allowing this way of victualling will be of great inconvenience. Because the victual was so strait, they stayed till it was too late to go. The victuallers had two men of war to convoy them to Plymouth; but a French privateer took two, and they looked on. Sir John Parsons. They had express orders to victual for four months. As soon as they came to sea, they put six men to four mens allowance; which might have been victual till Christmas. But I am apt to believe there was not so much. The whole of the Beer, for four months, was put on board the ships for the Descent. 6 Mr. Finch. Give me leave to remind you, how this debate began, and how it has been proceeded in. 1. You have adjourned hearing Rutter. Then the Book of Orders for Reasons why they stayed at Torbay, and did not go out, pursuant to orders. Then the state of the victuals in May. Then you called in the Admirals, and asked, Why they stayed from the 6th to the 16th, and did not go out? 1. They were not under orders.' 2. The line of battle was not full.' And, 3. They wanted victuals.' I remember, it was said, They were under general orders to annoy the enemy;' if they had advice of it, then how pursued? When that comes, you have opportunity to search that to the bottom. This is a question that involves the consideration of the whole matter, which depends not upon the Victual. How far they were to go to convoy them from |