HOUSE OF LORDS. Monday, March 25. 66 support, and defend, to the utmost of "their power, the succession to the crown "in his majesty's family against any per[ROMAN CATHOLIC PETITION.] Lord" son or persons whatsoever."-" That, by Grenville rose, and said, that agreeably to "those oaths, they renounce and abjure the notice he had given, he was about to " obedience and allegiance unto any other offer to their Lordships a petition from person claiming or pretending a right to certain of his Majesiy's subjects in Ireland, "the crown of this realm; that they reprofessing the Roman Catholic religion. 'ject and detest, as unchristian and imHe now held the Petition in his hand, and" pious, to believe that it is lawful in any in the first place desired that it might be ways to injure any person or persons read. The Clerk then read the Petition, "whatsoever under pretence of their of which the following is an authentic" being heretics; and also that unchristian copy. "and impious principle-that no faith is The humble Petition of the Roman Catho-" to be kept with Heretics—that it is no arlics of Ireland, whose names are here- ticle of their faith-and that they reunto subscribed, on behalf of themselves" nounce, reject, and abjure, the opinion, and of others his majesty's subjects pro- "that princes excommunicated by the fessing the Roman Catholic Religion, pope and council, or by any authority "SHEWETH-That your petitioners are "whatsoever, may be deposed or mursteadfastly attached to the person, family," dered by their subjects, or by any other and government, of their most gracious person whatsoever;-that they do not sovereign; that they are impressed with" believe that the pope of Rome, or any sentiments of affectionate gratitude for the other foreign prince, prelate, state, or benign laws which have been enacted for " potentate, hath, or ought to have, any meliorating their condition during his pa-" temporal or civil jurisdiction, power, ternal reign; and they contemplate, with" superiority, or pre-eminence within this rational and decided predilection, the ad-" realm;-that they firmly believe, that mirable principles of the British constitu-" no act in itself unjust, immoral, or "wicked, can ever be justified or excused "Your Petitioners most humbly state, " by or under pretence or colour that it that they have, solemnly and publicly," was done for the good of the church, or taken the oaths by law prescribed to his" in obedience to any ecclesiastical power majesty's Roman Catholic subjects, as "whatsoever; and that it is not an artitests of political and moral principles; and" cle of the catholic faith, neither are they they confidently appeal to the sufferings" thereby required to believe or profess, which they have long endured, and the" that the pope is infallible, or that they sacrifices which they still make rather than" are bound to any order, in its own na violate their consciences (by taking oaths" ture immoral, although the pope or of a religious or spiritual import contrary any ecclesiastical power should issue or to their belief), as decisive proofs of their" direct such order; but that, on the couprofound and scrupulous reverence for " trary, they hold, that it would be sinful the sacred obligation of an oath. "in them to pay any respect or obedience "Your Petitioners beg leave to repre- "thereto-that they do not believe that sent-that by those awful tests they bind " any sin whatsoever, committed by them, themselves, in the presence of the All-" can be forgiven at the mere will of any seeing Deity, whom all classes of Chris-" pope or of any priest, or of any person or tians adore, "to be faithful and bear true" persons whatsoever, but that any perallegiance to their most gracious sove- "son who receives absolution, without a reign lord King George the Third, and sincere sorrow for such sin, and a firm bim to defend to the utmost of their" and sincere resolution to avoid future power against all conspiracies and at tion. 66 66 guilt, and to atone to God, so far from tempts whatsoever that shall be made" obtaining thereby any remission of his "against his person, crown or dignity; to" sin, incurs the additional guilt of viola"do their utmost endeavours to disclose" ting a sacrament; and," by the same and make known to his majesty and his solemn obligation, "they are bound and "heirs all treasons and traitorous conspi- 66 firmly pledged to defend, to the utmost "racies which may be formed against him" of their power, the settlement and ar "or them; and faithfully to maintain," rangement of property in their country VOL. IV. "as established by the laws now in being; now in force, his majesty's Roman Catho"that they have disclaimed, disavowed, lic subjects, who form so great a propor"and solemly abjured any intention to tion of the population of Ireland, and con"subvert the present church establishment tribute so largely to the resources of the "for the purpose of substituting a catholic state, do yet labour under many incapa"establishment in its stead;" and that they cities, restraints, and privations, which have also solemnly sworn," that they will affect them with peculiar severity in almost "not exercise any privilege, to which they every station of life; that more especially are or may become entitled, to disturb they are denied the capacity of sitting or or weaken the protestant religion or pro- voting in either of the honourable houses -"testant government in Ireland." of parliament; the manifold evils conse"Your Petitioners most humbly begquent upon which incapacity they trust it leave to shew, that however painful it is to is unnecessary to unfold and enumerate to their feelings, that it should still be thought this honourable house. necessary to exact such tests from them "They are disabled from holding or ex(and from them alone of all his majesty's ercising (unless by a special dispensation) subjects), they can with perfect truth af- any corporate office whatsoever in the cifirm, that the political and moral princi-ties or towns in which they reside; they ples, which are thereby asserted, are not are incapacitated and disqualified from only conformable to their opinions, but holding or exercising the offices of sheriffs expressly inculcated by the religion which and sub-sheriffs, and various offices of they profess; and your Petitioners most trust, honour, and emolument in the state, humbly trust, that the religious doctrines, in his majesty's military and naval service, which permit such tests to be taken, will and in the administration of the laws, in be pronounced by this honourable house this their native land. to be entitled to a toleration, not merely "Your Petitioners, declining to enter partial, but complete, under the happy into the painful detail of the many incapaconstitution and government of this realm; cities and inconveniencies avowedly inand that his majesty's Roman Catholic sub-flicted by those statutes upon his majesty's jects, holding those principles, will be considered as subjects upon whose fidelity the state may repose the firmest reliance. Roman Catholic subjects, beg leave, however, most earnestly to solicit the attention of this hon. house, to the humiliating and ignominious system of exclusior, reproach, suspicion, which those statutes generate and keep alive. "Your Petitioners further most humbly shew, that 26 years have now elapsed since their most gracious sovereign and the honourable houses of parliament in Ireland, "For your Petitioners most humbly by their public and deliberate act, de- shew, that in consequence of the hostile clared, that," froin the uniform peace-spirit thereby sanctioned, their hopes able behaviour of the Roman Catholics of of enjoying even the privileges, which, Ireland for a long series of years, it appeared through the benignity of their most reasonable and expedient to relax the dis- gracious sovereign, they have been capaabilities and incapacities under which they citated to enjoy, are nearly altogether fruslaboured, and that it must tend not only trated, insomuch that they are, in effect, to the cultivation and improvement of this shut out from almost all the honours, digkingdom, but to the prosperity and strengthnities, and offices of trast and emolument of all his majesty's dominions, that his in the state, from rank and distinction in majesty's subjects of all denominations his majesty's army and navy, and even should enjoy the blessings of a free consti- from the lowest situations and franchises tution, and should be bound to each other by mutual interest and mutual affection;" a declaration founded upon unerring principles of justice and sound policy, which still remains to be carried into full effect (although your Petitioners are impressed with a belief, that the apprehensions which retarded its beneficial operation previous to the union cannot exist in the parliament of the united kingdom). "For your Petitioners most humbly shew, that, by virtue of divers statutes in the several cities and corporate towns throughout his majesty's dominions, "And your petitioners severely feel, that this unqualified interdiction of those of their communion from all municipal stations, from the franchises of all guilds and corporations, and from the patronage and benefits annexed to those situations, is an evil not terminating in itself; for they beg leave to stute, that, by giving an advantage over those of their communion to others. bv whom such situations are ea clusively possessed, it establishes a species | restraints upon his majesty's prerogativeof qualified monopoly, universally ope- that they are hurtful and vexatious to the rating in their disfavour, contrary to the feelings of a loyal and generous peoplespirit, and highly detrimental to the free-and that the total abolition of then will be dom of trade. found not only compitible with, but highly conducive to, the perfect security of every establishment, religious or political, now existing in this realm. "Your Petitioners likewise severely feel, that his majesty's Roman Catholic subjects, in consequence of their exclusion from the offices of sheriffs and sub-sheriffs, and of the hostile spirit of those statutes, do not fully enjoy certain other inestimable privileges of the British constitution, which the law has most jealously maintained and secured to their fellow subjects. "For your Petitioners most explicitly declare, that they do not seek or wish, in the remotest degree, to injure or encroach upon "the rights, privileges, immunities, possessions, or revenues appertaining, to the bishops and clergy of the protestant "Your Petitioners most humbly beg religion, as by law established, or to the leave to solicit the attention of this hon. churches committed to their charge, or house to the distinction which has conceded to any of them "-the sole object of your the elective, and denies the representative petitioners being an equal participation, franchise to one and the same class of his upon equal terms with their fellow-subjects, his majesty's subjects; which detaches of the full benefits of the British laws and from property its proportion of political constitution. power under a constitution whose vital "Your Petitioners beg leave most humprinciple is the union of the one with the bly to observe, that although they might other; which closes every avenue of lega- well and justly insist upon the firm and unlized ambition against those who must be abated loyalty of his majesty's Roman presumed to have great credit and in-Catholic subjects to their most gracious fluence among the mass of the population sovereign, their profound respect for the of the country; which refuses to peers of legislature, and their dutiful submission to the realm all share in the legislative representation, either actual or virtual; and renders the liberal profession of the law to Roman Catholics a mere object of pecuniary traffic, despoiled of its hopes and of its honours. the laws, yet they most especially rest their humble claims and expectations of relief upon the clear and manifest conduciveness of the measure which they solicit to the general and permanent tranquillity, strength and happiness of the British em"Your Petitioners further most humbly pire. And your Petitioners, entertaining shew, that the exclusion of so numerous no doubt of its final accomplishment, from and efficient a portion of his majesty's its evident justice and utility, do most sosubjects as the Roman Catholics of this lemnly assure this hon, house, that their realm from civil honours and offices, and earnest solicitude for it, at this peculiar from advancement in his majesty's army crisis, arises principally from their anxious and navy, actually impairs, in a very ma- desire to extinguish all motives to disunion, terial degree, the most valuable resources and all means of exciting discontent. of the British empire, by impeding his "For your Petitioners humbly state it majesty's general service, stifling the most as their decided opinion, that the enemies honourable and powerful incentives to of the British empire, who meditate the civil and military merit, and unnecessa-subjugation of Ireland, have no hope of rily restricting the exercise of that bright success, save in the disunion of its inprerogative of the crown, which encou-habitants; and therefore it is, that your rages good subjects to promote the public Petitioners are deeply anxious, at this mowelfare, and excites them to meritorious ment, that a measure should be accomactions, by a well regulated distribution of plished which will annihilate the principles public honours and rewards. of religious animosity, and animate all de"Your Petitioners beg leave most humscriptions of his majesty's subjects in an bly to submit, that those manifold incapa- enthusiastic defence of the best constitucities, restraints, and privations, are abso- tion that has ever yet been established, lutely repugnant to the liberal and com- "Your Petitioners, therefore, most prehensive principles recognized by their humbly presume to express their earnest, most gracious sovereign and the parlia- but respectful hope, that this hon, house will ment of Ireland; that they are impolitic in its wisdom and liberality, deem the se veral statutes, now in force against them, no longer necessary to be retained; and that his majesty's loyal and dutiful subjects, professing the Roman Catholic religion, may be effectually relieved from the operation of those statutes, and that so they may be restored to the full enjoyment of the benefits of the British constitution, and to every inducement of attachment to that constitution, equally and in common with their fellow subjects throughout the British empire. And your Petitioners will ever pray, &c. Signed Shrewsbury, Waterford, and Wexford; Fingal, Kenmure, Gormanstown, Southwell, Trimlestown, &e. &c." and undermine the fortifications which had been raised for the protection of the church and state. He must use these words church and state, because they presented an idea to his mind, which he never could separate from that of the constitution of the country. Having said thus much, be again expressed his hope that the business would not be suffered to lie over, but that it would be brought forward as speedily as possible. Lord Grenville would not use one word of argument in support of the petition. He should only observe, that so far as it was in his power to expedite the business, it would be forwarded, and he was anxious that no unnecessary delay should take place. He also assured their lordships, that when the subject was brought forward, it should, as far as depended on him, receive a deliberate, calm, and dis - Lord Grenville again rose, and moved, that it do lie on the table. He said, it was not his intention to make any other motion at present, on a subject of so much importance; much deliberation was neces-passionate discussion. With regard to the sary previous to any notice being given of a motion for the consideration of the petition. When it should be thought fit to submit that proposition to the house, he assured their lordships that ample notice would be given.' merits of the petition, he would say nothing now; that was what he wished to avoid at present, even if any thing could have induced him to offer any observaticns on a motion for laying this petition on the table. Lord Auckland felt himself bound to say Lord Hawkesbury, after what had passed, a few words before the petition was laid could not permit the petition to be laid on on the table, He declared that the na- the table, without taking the opportunity ture of the petition, until this moment, had of saying a few words upon the motion. been perfectly unknown to him. He had,The right of petitioning he held to be so however, listened attentively to it while sacred a privilege, that nothing could exreading, and, from what caught his ear, it cuse their lordships from receiving petiappeared to him that the petitioners claim- tions from any description of his majesty's ed a full participation of all the rights and subjects. To this general proposition he privileges of the other subjects of his ma- knew only two exceptions: 1st, when the jesty. That was a claim which merited grievance complained of was one over the most serious consideration. If it were which their lordships had no jurisdiction, to be conceded, the consequence would be, and which they therefore could not redress. that their lordships would see a protestant 2d, when there was something disrespectking, in this country, maintaining the pro-ful in the form or language of the petition. testant religion here, while it was losing its ascendency in Ireland. In Ireland, their lordships would see the protestant religion established by law, while the magistrates and legislators of the country would be Roman Catholics. He regretted that this subject had been brought forward, but since it had come under the notice of their lordships, he trusted that the question would be fully investigated. Their lordships could not now let the subject pass over, but must feel it to be their duty to discuss it minutely, calmly, and dispassionately. He would give no opinion at present; but he must confess that he saw nothing in the signs of the times that would Hiduce him to break down the barriers, The present petition, however, came not within either of these exceptions, and he therefore should not object to its being laid on the table. He concurred with the noble baron who had introduced the petition, in deprecating all premature discussion; but, if it was that noble baron's intention to bring the subject again before the House, he thought it but justice now to declare, that if any motion should be made for carrying into effect the prayer of the petition, he should then, but not tilk then, state his reasons for opposing any such measure. 4 Lord Grenville said, he only rose, that it might be distinctly understood, that it was his intention to bring forward the sub farther proceeded in that house, and in ject of the petition and its prayer to the The Lord Chancellor did not then wish to offer any opinion as to the substance of his noble friend's motion, but he recommended that the consideration of such a The Duke of Norfolk rose, to move that proposition should be deferred for a few the Petition should be printed. Ile was days. On the first view of it, they should not aware whether such a motion was con-hesitate ere they agreed to put such a proformable to the custom and usage of the position to the judges, as containing points house; but when be considered the im-upon which he, for one, perhaps, could portance of the subject, and the variety have no doubt. He should, however, in of assertions made in the Petition, all of the interval he meant to propose, pay a which it was indispensably necessary their most sedulous attention to the precedents, lordships should thoroughly investigate, he and to the records on the journals. It wished, if there was no order against it, certainly required some deliberation, as to press upon the attention of the House a possibly, by taking such a step precipimotion for printing the petition. He at tately, they might advance further in error, the same time regretted, that a noble lord, After considering the proposition in a vaholding a high situation in his majesty's riety of legal points of view, in the course most intimate councils, should have pre- of which he deprecated the putting such maturely expressed an opinion inimical to questions to the learned judges without the prayer of the petition. further inquiry and deliberation; he moved, that the further consideration of the motion be adjourned till this day se'nnight. The Lord Chancellor said, he believed it would be found, on the one hand, that there was no order against printing a petiLord Grenville did not mean to oppose tion, and that, on the other, there was no the amendment of the noble and learned example of any petition having been print- lord, but agreed in favour of a great deal ed. He thought that the importance of of what fell from the noble lord who openthe petition demanded that it should re-ed the discussion. He contended, that main on the table, for the examination of sooner than persist in error, they should, every one of their lordships, instead of if found necessary, tread back their steps; being sent out of the House to be printed, -The motion was negatived. and he hoped, that no fear of imputed inconsistency would deter them from doing [CONDUCT OF JUDGE Fox.] Lord Auck- that which they should find to be right. land, agreeably to the notice he had given, He thought it would be proper to take brought forward some farther propositions the opinion of the judges on the occasion, in reference to the pending case of this who, it should be recollected, had, offimagistrate. After some general obser- cially, seats in that house. No objection vations, as to the peculiar importance of would be urged, he thought, to the noble the case, the necessity which existed for and learned lord's amending the language their lordships deciding upon it with the of the proposition, as he should deem proutmost caution and deliberation, with a per; and, after adverting to what he conview equally to the correctness of their ceived a difference in the line of argument own proceedings, as well as to the impor- then adopted by the learned lord, and tance of the case in the way of precedent, what he had urged on former occasions, and, adverting to the circumstance of the observed, that he should not hesitate to proceedings in the committee being ad- follow that line of conduct adopted by lord journed till the beginning of May, against chancellor Clarendon, on an occasion which period their lordships might be fur-nearly similar, who resorted for informanished with the necessary information of tion and advice to that quarter, which the advice upon the point, moved to the gene-usage of that house, and the constitution, ral effect, that the case against Mr. equally pointed out as the most eligible in Justice Fox, the charges alleged, and steps such cases. taken in consequence, be referred to the Lord Hawkesbury conceived, that the cousideration of the judges for their opi- proceedings then before their lordships nion of the same; and whether the case, were not upon an address to his majesty, as it stood, could, consistently with the for the removal of a judge; but the quesrelevant acts and usage of parliament, be tion was, what proceedings should be had |