ca-

exclamation, urged with violence, and sup- the Irish hierarchy thought it monstrous to ported by prejudices nearly, allied to their propose. Nothing could more strongly mark own, prevailed. The oath proposed was the different tempers and characters of the therefore altered, and the Roman catholics English and Irish catholics; a difference, of Ireland swore to maintain the succes principally springing from the unbounded sion in the king and his family. The Ro- authority exercised over the latter by that hieman catholics of England following this rarchy to which he principally attributed the example, first took a similar oath but distracted state of the country, But this wishing to obtain further concessions, and was not important only as it marked the conscious of the objections which might different tempers and characters of the cabe made, to this oath, they proposed an- tholics in the two countries; for this exother, in more extensive terms in many traordinary consequence might follow. If respects, and particularly swearing to it should ever be the misfortune of the emmaintain the succession as limited by pire that the prince to whom the succession law to the princess Sophia, and the heirs would otherwise belong should exclude of her body, being protestants. A decla- himself from a lawful title to that succesration, containing the effect of the oathsion by embracing the Roman catholic reproposed, was signed by almost all the ligion, the protestants of the whole empire, principal English Roman catholics, clergy and the Roman catholics of England would as well as laity; but the court of Rome be bound by their oaths to oppose his suc abjected to it, and, the apostolical vicars cession, and the Roman catholics of Ireland were ordered, not only to withdraw their would be bound by their oaths to maintain countenance, but to pronounce the strongest it. A dreadful state of things, which we ecclesiastical censures against it. These must ardently pray may never happen, but censures were accordingly promulged in which we should, at the same time anxiously form and although conceived in very ge-endeavour to prevent.-It must be manifest neral terms, as probably it was not thought from this circumstance, if no other appearprudent, to use, in England, the very strong ed of similar tendency, that the Roman language which had been used in Ireland, tholic hierarchy in Ireland still cherish the yet it was manifest that the engagement to hope that by some means the Roman cathomaintain the protestant succession formed a lic religion may again become the establishprincipal objection to the oath. For the ed religion of Ireland; a hope which the apostolical vicars proposed to the English English catholics have long abandoned with catholics, either that the oath before taken respect to England, and then first became by them should not be changed, or that quiet, orderly, and loyal subjects of the they should substitute, either the oath protestant government. To prevent the taken by the Irish catholics, or a new form accomplishment of the hope thus sanguinely of oath, framed under the direction of the entertained in Ireland, the protestant as apostolical vicars, and which they offered to cendancy must be anxiously preserved. the consideration of their people. On none There can be no equality between the two of these forms the maintenance of the pro- religions; one must have the ascendancy, testant succession formed a part. In all, and there could be no doubt to which, conthe obligation of allegiance was to the king sistently with the law and constitution of and his family. The greater part of the the empire, and the peace and happiness of English Roman catholics were, however, Ireland, the ascendancy in Ireland ought to steady to their purpose of giving the full be given. The far greater proportion of the test of their submission to the law by which empire had embraced the protestant persuathe crown had been placed on the head of sion; the government was essentially prothe prince on the throne; considering it as testant; the protestant church was tolerant folly, or mockery, or something worse, to in its principles, bearing with every denoswear obedience to the prince, and to refuse mination of christians: the Roman catholic obedience to the law by which he became church was intolerant; and the Irish cathoprince. At length the apostolical vicars, lic was taught to concede the name of fearing, as they acknowledged, a schism christian to none but those in obedience to which might have been fatal to the general the see of Rome. It had been the folly of interests of the see of Rome in England, the time to depress the tolerant, to raise the submitted to so much, of the proposed oath, intolerant religion, and to call the folly toobtaining a change in other matters; and leration. It had been the folly of the time they have themseves taken that oath which to encourage the hopes of the Roman catho

means of knowing the truth of this assertion; and he could particularly state that the

consequence) without a protestant inhabitant. This called loudly for remedy, and there was ground to hope means might be found by de-applications for the benefit of charities in

grees to provide the remedy. But above all, Dublin, established for putting poor children it was necessary to make it safe for a protes apprentices, were astonishingly numerous tant to reside in every part of Ireland. There and the reason assigned by those who applied were many districts in which a protestant, was, that they could not get employment for unless a man of fortune, or under peculiar their children as domestic servants, or labourcircumstances of protection, could not ven- ers, and were compelled to bring them up to ture to fix his residence. In consequence, handicraft trades.Viewing the state of Ireit had been observed, and particularly by land as he did, he could not but repeat his a distinguished Roman catholic writer, that conviction, that it was necessary, though the in many parts of Ireland a protestant day-necessity was much to be deplored, to keep labourer was not to be found. There were with anxious care, the remaining restric-. handicraftsmen in towns, were they might tions on the Roman catholics of that counbe in some degree protected, and might try. In his opinion not only the security of protect each other; but in many parts of the church establishment, but the properties the country not a protestant of the lower and even the lives of the protestants, and the order could be found. This principally arose connexion of Ireland with Great Britain, defrom the influence of the Roman catholic pended on the preservation of those restric clergy, and the hatred which they excited tions, until a great and important change in the minds of their people against the pro- should be made, in the temper and conduct testants, as Englishmen and heretics, for both of the Roman catholics, and their priesthood of which description they used, in the Irish should be put on a very different footing, language, the same word. In consequence, To conciliation he had ever been, and ever a strong spirit of persecution prevailed; and, should be, a warm friend, but the terms of strange as it might seem to many of their conciliation must be very different from those lordships, he could venture to aver, that the proposed by the petition, He could not be protestant was in truth the persecuted reli- deluded by pretence of conciliation to ingion in Ireland. And to such a degree was crease the power and means of offence of this intolerance carried, that, except in the that hierarchy which tyrannised over those north, few domestic servants of the protes- of their own persuasion, which set all law tant persuasion could be found. Even in at defiance, and threatened at every moment protestant families, where there was a de- the extirpation of the protestants of Ireland. sire to have protestant servants, it had been The abolition of that hierarchy was in his found almost impossible to procure them, or opinion the first step to that conciliation to retain them if procured, unless all or near which he believed could alone produce peace ly all the servants of the family were protes- to Ireland: and the Roman Catholic laity, tants. Where the Roman catholic servants desiring a full participation of the benefits of had once gained the superiority, or where the British law and constitution, one of the upper servants were of that religion, the which, and not the least important, is freeprotestants were soon compelled to quit their dom from ecclesiastical tyranny, must first service, unless protected by extraordinary throw off the yoke of their own priesthood; exertions of the family, or under some very which, whilst it exists in all its force, ren peenliar circumstances. The poorer protes-ders the participation which they require tants had therefore great difficulties in putting out their children. As officially a trustee of several charities in Dublin, as well as from the information of others, he had

The Earl of Suffolk rose and spoke as follows: I rise, my lords, to state the sentiments which occur to me, on the best consideration I have been able to give this important question; and in support of the vote which I this night mean to give. My lords, if I rightly understand the petition on your table, it goes to the claim of measures which become necessary to the relief of a great body of his majesty's catholic subjects

dangerous to themselves, and utterly incom patible with the peace of the country, the safety of the protestants, and the connexion of Ireland with Great Britain,

in Ireland, from certain restrictions and disabilities under which they still labour ou ac count of their religion. And, my lords, I consider that claim not as of a boon, but as of a right which every British subject in this united kingdom should enjoy as his birthright, who is not dis-entitled thereto by any thing exceptionable in his principles, his character or his loyalty! If I considered it as a boon I should still say to your lordships

trar

1° ~ binet detter tape re *COLTA TUCU IS0 96) most deprecable consequences from the refusal. My lords, I now proceed to ans wer some arguments which fell from the no

grant it to them-liberally and generously now, rather than at a future period, when the justice of the claim and the policy of acceding to it,

fordships wisdom force itself upon your ble secretary of state in the course of last

night's discussion,, My noble friend (lord Grenville) who introduced this subject, very properly, in my mind, deprecated every species of warmth and intemperance, on discussing this question, and a speech, more moderate, more cool and dispassionate than his own, I never heard within these walls But the noble secretary of state commenced his speech with a degree of heat and vehe mence, which from him I should not have expected, and which was but ill calculated to procure attention, or give weight to his rea soning, But I appeal to the house, if, in the course of his speech, he stated any one argument which the noble baron did not anticipate and refute, A speech so fraught with justice, with truth, with sound argument, as that of the noble baron, must, think, have carried conviction to the minds of your lordships, and would, I should hope, induce you to accede to his proposition,

fordships' wisdom; and therefore, let it rather be granted now, and with the appearance of liberal concession, than at another period, when it will have that of being extorted from you. Much, my lords, has been said with respect to the expediency or inexpediency of the time for conceding those claims. In my opinion, my lords, this is the best possible time. We are, this moment, and for some time past, have been menaced on all sides by a vigilant, daring, implacable, and adventurous eneiny. His feets, we know, are this moment at sea, with the design of some desperate and hostile attack against the British dominions and we know not the moment when, or the place where, he may effect a landing on some of our coasts; or, whether in Ireland or the West-Indies. At such a moment, my lords, four millions of his majesty's catholic subjects are suppliants at your bar, for a full participation in those, constitutional magna est veritas et prevalebit. The norights, in which it is our glory and their anxious desire to participate, and which they will then be thus forcibly attached to defend and join in the common cause for our common safety. Is it, or is it not, then, wise to secure their attachments, to unite their hearts and hands with cur own against the common foe, and to maintain inviolable our common country? It has been said, by many noble lords who have spoken on the other side of this question, that enough has been already granted to the catholics, that you cannot grant more with safety to the constitution; and that you ought to make your stand here. I do not agree with those noble lords; for, in my mind, if you do hot grant to the full extent, you do nothing, to secure the affections, and the cordial attachment of the catholics. The whole course of your measures toward the catholics, for a series of years, has been only a preInde to their final and complete emancipation. If it is not to be granted now, you disappoint the anxiety and the hopes of the catholic mind. You have taught them to expect it by the whole course of your poliey, and by your successive relaxations of the penal code, in their favour. They have fooked up with earnest expectation to the event they have polished their education, they have enlarged their understandings and if it is now withheld, he knows little of the human mind that cannot anticipate the

ble secretary of state accused the noble ba ron with using threats to intimidate this house into compliance with the measure; but the noble baron so immediately contra dicted the assertion, as to make it unneces sary for me to say anything on that head, My lords, the noble secretary has said that there was no pledge in terms held out to the Roman catholics, at the time of the un ion, that this measure should pass. My. lords, I beg to know, then, when were those terms held out? for certainly there was a strong expectation universally entertained, upon the subject, which must have had strong grounds somewhere; and if it was not for the implicit acquiescence of the Irish catholics, upon the ground of such an understanding, you could not have carried the union. And, I ask, if this was not the measure held out to secure the acquiescence of the catholies to that union? What other boon has been granted to the people of Ire land since the union? None! that I know of, but additional taxes, and sending abroad a great part of the army that was for their defence. A noble lord, whom I do not now see in his place, has said the measure could never be granted consistently with the safety of the constitution; and other noble lords thought that some future period would be more applicable. My lords, I think the properest time is now, and that there should be no longer delay, because, if you refuse

16837

:

JT & LUZ & tree on e 60 0:0 Per 146.

1

or

the measure now, what is to be said of the concerns, in as great an extent as can be future strength of your navies and armies required. And what danger can arise to the more than a third of which are manned by country, from the circumstance of the ca Irishmen much the greater part of whom are tholic bishop's being named by the pope, Į catholics: upon this ground then, I am ex-am at a loss to conceive. It has been said tremely sorry to hear such arguments offer- they want to secure and monopolize for ed by his majesty's minister, or those who themselves all the great offices of power support him, and that this measure is never and of the state, and not only command to be granted and the point on which I your armies and fleets, but to be lord chan felt most sorrow at his declaration, was, cellors, judges, and privy counsellors. Why, where he said he had no confidence in the my lords, I appeal to the good sense of this principles or professions of the Irish catho- house, whether it is probable that a proteshics; for it must go to depress all ranks and tant king, at the head of a protestant state, classes of that people in the sister country, would chuse, as the keeper of his conby holding them in so much lower estimation science, a Roman catholic chancellor than any other class of their fellow subjects, that he would exclude protestant judges aid, than, I am sure, any other member of from the bench, for the sake of preferring this house entertains. I would ask the noble Roman catholics? As well might it be lord, when he talked of the security of our said, that he would deprive of their revenues glorious constitution, and glorious it certain- protestant bishops, in order to confer them is: Was it to protestants we are indebted on those of the catholic religion, and I am for that invaluable jewel? I answer, no! confident, that reverend bench opposite me for you obtained that constitution, magna have no such apprehensions, even if this charta; and all those inestimable rights that measure were now passed. With respect to form the chief bulwarks of British liberty commands in the army, supposing, as I do, at a time when the catholic religion was the catholics, who would be likely to obtain the faith of this country. What danger, them, are not only men of tried loyalty, but therefore, can be apprehended from catho- high honour and talents; I see no reason lies or their religious principles to that con- why a catholic general or privy counsellor stitution which owes its origin to themselves? may not be as competent to render imporWith respect to what has fallen from the tant services to a protestant king, as a proroyal duke, I reverence his respect to that testant general or counsellor to a catholic religion, and those principles which intro- monarch. My lords, was not the great duced his illustrious family to the throne Sully, first minister of the catholic prince of these realms; and under whose auspices Henry IV. a strict protestant, and was any this country has continued to enjoy so many incompetence or infidelity to his royal massignal advantages. But I always conceived ter imputed to him on that account? Was that the Roman catholic prince, to whom not marshal Turenne, one of the bravest his family succeeded, was driven from the and ablest generals ever the catholic governthrone, not for his religion, but his arbi- ment had in its service, a strict protestant ? trary principles, and the despotism he at- and were his services on that account less tempted to introduce. But, if a Roman ca- brilliant? I might name many other intholic king, upon the throne of these realms, stances equally illustrious, where the liberalwith all the power and influence he possess-ity of wise governments has risen superior ed, was unable to change the religion, or to the low suspicions of bigotry, and scorned subvert the constitution of this country, to hold that any man's religious opinions and was hurled from the throne for the at- should lead him to violate an high, sacred tempt; how is it possible that, under a and honourable trust. Are there not in protestant prince of the House of Bruns- the empire of Germany many independent wick, and a protestant legislature, such states, wherein no difference is made with events have the most distant probability respect to religion in conferring places.or. of risk, from any indulgence that now re-employments? nay, are there not many, mains to be extended to his majesty's catholic subjects in Ireland? My lords, it has been said the Roman catholics of Ireland admit their allegiance to a foreign juris diction. I deny the fact; and I appeal to the petition on your table, which disclaims and abjures any such jurisdiction in temporal

towns and cities, where the catholics and protestants occupy the same churches, to caCD-1 lebrate their public worship, the catholics" one-half of the day, the protestants the. other? Is it not the case throughout the United States of America, that every man is left to the religion he chuses to profess,