consent to defer it. If it should appear on the production of the letter, that any further proceedings had been taken upon it, they also would be necessary to be laid on the table, which would require further tine.

concluded with the 'motion as we. have above stated.

Lord Castlereagh said, he should have wished that this motion had been made without some of the observations which had been made upon it; he should have Mr. Francis made some objection to a no objection to the information seemed to further delay of his motion, which had be required, if it led to any practical proalready been put off to accommodate the ceeding of the house to be founded upon other side of the house. But on the sug- it; but the hon. gent. had mixed two things gestion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which are totally distinct in their nature: Mr. Francis's motion relative to the pre-the proceedings of the court martial by sent state of India was fixed for Friday which Mr. Grogan was tried and executed next, and Mr. Grey consented to put off as a rebel, and afterwards the act of athis notice on the part of his hon. friend to tainder, which was a proceeding in the Monday, under an understanding however, parliament of Ireland, founded, not on on all sides, that no further delay should the evidence of the court martial, but on take place, unless something not then fore-evidence laid before the parliament itself, seen, should occur to render it neces sary.

and such as had been held sufficient by that parliament to justify the act of atThe Chancellor of the Exchequer theu tainder. He doubted whether there existmoved that there be laid before the ed now any evidence, which the house house a Copy of the Letter of lord vis- could be satisfied with, to induce it to recount Melville, dated the 28th of March, verse that proceeding, and the hon. memto the Commissioners of Naval Enquiry; ber had not stated what parliamentary use and also, a copy of any proceedings had he intended to make of the information, thereon, or of any answer thereto by the such as it might be, after he should obtain said Commissioners of Naval Enquiry."-it. For these reasons, and wishing not to Agreed to.

deprive the hon. gent. of an opportunity [CORNELIUS GROGAN'S ATTAINDER.] to call for such information whenever he Mr. Martin (of Galway), pursuant to no- should make out a case to entitle him to tice, moved, that there be laid before its production, the noble lord moved, that the house a copy of the evidence and pro- the other order of the day be now read. ceedings before the committee of the par- Mr. Martin imputed this opposition to liament of Ireland, on passing the act of a wish in the noble lord to shelter the adthe 38th of his present majesty, attaint-ministration, of which he was a member. ing Cornelius Grogan, esq. of John's town, Ile considered Mr. Grogan as a person in the county of Wexford, so far as the who was justified in what he did under the same regarded the said Cornelius Grogan." authority of lord Coke and lord Hale, who He said it was proper to apprize the house laid it down as the law of our land, that a of his object in making this motion. It man may join rebels to save his own life, was, that the evidence taken before the and continue with them under the terror committee of the parliament of Ireland of its loss, until he shall have an opportumight be re-examined, to see whether it nity to escape; this, he said, was the laid a sufficient ground for the proceed-case of that unfortunate gent. He conings which were had in the case of the un-sidered, therefore, that his execution was fortunate gent. to whom he had alluded, an act of murder, and that the attainder and whose life was taken away by the order was an act of confiscation, founded on an act of a military council; and by which evi- of murder. The noble lord's apprehension dence, be maintained, it would appear, fell short of the fact, when he supposed that nothing could be more flagrant than there was not evidence sufficiently formal those proceedings were; that the life of to be laid before the house. He knew Mr. Cornelius Grogan was taken away there was correct evidence of the whole without the verdict of a jury, or trial by proceeding. He had seen it. The hon. law; that he was tried by a military coun-member contended that there wasmo want cil, and that the members of the court of documents, and pledged himself, if dewere not upon oath, and that the neces-cessary, to find the evidence which it was sary formalities were not observed, several his wish to submit to the house, as correct pinissions of which he enumerated, and notes had been taken of it at the time.

Reverting to the court martial, the hon. | possible information upon the subject'; and member insisted that all the necessary for the only reason that induced him to move malities had not been complied with. He the order of the day was, that the hon. would ask his majesty's attorney general, gent. had not stated what his object was in if a person taken from the king's prison, calling for this evidence, or what parlia and not taken in any act of rebellion, was mentary proceeding he meant to ground a legal subject of a court martial? And upon it. The hon. gent had now stated: yet this had been the case in respect to his object to be that of reversing the bill Mr. Grogan. He had not joined, but had of attainder against Mr. Grogan, which been detained by the rebels. He would certainly was a fair parliamentary ground stake his credit, that the evidence he had for calling for the document in question; moved for would bring to light such fla-and therefore he would, with the leave of grant proceedings as had seldom, if ever, the house, withdraw his motion been heard of, and which he was not at Sir John Newport said, that the family' all surprized the noble lord should be of Mr. Grogan had been in very extraofanxious to keep in the back ground. The dinary, and, indeed, most unfortunate country, he asserted, was in perfect peace circumstances. The very next brother to at the time. The king's commission was, Mr. Grogan, and who would have been in the county of Wexford, to deliver the his immediate heir had he survived him, gools. Was there any reason, then, for a fell honourably, loyally, and gloriously, military court martial to call them out? fighting the battles of his country. The The hon. member then adverted, at some other brother fought with the most deterlength, to the evidence given by general mined bravery, till driven out of Wexford Craddock before the Irish commons, whose by the rebels, who were greatly superior answers to questions that he himself had in numbers, before the main body of the put to him, he begged leave to recall to army arrived, and therefore, under all the memory of the noble lord, and which these circumstances, added to a duubs clearly shewed the irregularity of the pro-whether Mr. Grogan himself had not been ceedings of the court martial. His object in obtruding this motion on the house was, he thought, a very laudable one. Should it appear that there was no evidence suffiGeneral Loftus said, he was in Wexford cient to warrant the proceedings that had at the time of the court martial upon Mr. been taken against Mr. Grogan, his rela-Grogan, and he begged leave to state, tions at least ought to have redress.

Mr. For observed, that the ground of the noble lord's objection did not appear to him to be at all admissible. He had said there was no evidence to be produced. Whatever might have been the case in Ireland, such he was certain was not the case in this country, for if no evidence could be afterwards produced, attainders would be irreversible; but the noble lord was too well acquainted with the history of this country to be reminded that many instances had occurred of attainders being reversed. If what he had heard on this subject were true, there could be no donbt that that Act ought to be reversed; but that was not the question, till the evidence should be in due form before them. Severe in general were the times when acts of attainder were resorted to, but to render them irreversible by refusing a revisal, would be to aggravate that severity.

Lord Castlereagh said, that nothing could be further from his wishes than to prevent parliament from receiving every

forced to fight on the side of the rebels, he thought the justice of the house would incline them to agree to the motion.

that the officers who formed the court were the principal men of rank and character in the army, and every attention had been paid in the careful examination of the witnesses. After the sentence was passed, he was told by many persons of the towny that Mr. Grogan was not so much to blame as he appeared to be; on which he ap plied to General Lake to suspend the execution of the sentence for some time, till! he could make further inquiry; to which general Lake consented, and the execution was deferred till evening, when not being able to find any facts in his favour to counterpoise, or do away the evidence adduced against him, he went to inform General Lake of the circumstance, and the execu tion then took place.

Mr. Francis rose merely to express his disapprobation of acts of attainder in ge neral, as affecting the innocent/and--not the guilty.

Lord Castlereagh said, he was anxious to do justice to the characters of Mr. Grogan's brothers and family, by allowing

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that they had always distinguished them- of wisdom, sprung in complete armour selves by the most unshaken loyalty and from the brain of this political Jupiter, the attachment to their king and country, and whole Congress, on mount Olympus being government had shewn its sense of their employed as the midwives. He rather conduct by conveying the confiscated es- thought, however, that she was in reality. tate to a near relation of the family. His no more than a plain rustic nymph, not lordship's motion was then, with the leave over remarkable for dress or attractions, of the house, withdrawn, and the original for she had wandered over every parish motion was agreed to. in the kingdom, and had not been able to find a friend, or companion to accompany! her. He observed, that the ballot was a very unequal tax on the people; but still the militia had long been established, and the principle could not be destroyed with out the most flagrant injustice. The no

[MILITIA ENLISTING BILL.] The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the order of the day for the third reading of the militia enlisting bill. The bill was then read a third time. The right hon. gent. brought up a clause relative to the wives and families of those militia-men who should en-ble lord concluded with severely condem list.

The Marquis of Douglas asked whether it was the intention of the clause to render these wives and families still dependent on the country for support after the husbands should have enlisted?.. If that was the case he would oppose the clause.

Sir William Young expressed the same resolution, to object to it in case it was intended to occasion, a permanent burden to the country.

ning the ever-changing system the right, hon. gent. had adopted towards the militia, for many years past, and contended that the bill would go to the ruin of that constitutional branch of our defensive force. It was calculated to ruin the militia by taking the gentlemen of landed property. away from it, and destroying the confi dence which the men now had in their officers; it was also unjust in its operation on the public, as it occasioned an inequality of taxation on different classes of the people.

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The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that they had mistaken the clause, for its object was exactly the contrary of what Mr. Sheridan rose for the purpose of they imagined, in as far as it went to take entering his protest against the principle the burden of the families of such militia- of this bill. He remained of the same. men as should enlist off the country after a opinion that he had formerly expressed.. time to be limited.--The clause was then He agreed with the noble lord, that this agreed to; and, after a verbal amendment bill would destroy the militia system, and had been proposed and adopted, the ques-in a manner the most unprincipled and intion was put that the bill should pass.. sidious. It would lead to insubordination The Marquis of Douglas was sorry that [in the regiments, and was dangerous in a he was again obliged to trespass on the constitutional view, and unwise in a mili indulgence of the house, but hoped that tary one. One object he had in rising was, he would not be thought pertinacious in to take notice of the preamble. In that it his opinions, when no argument had as was stated, "whereas it is important that yet been urged to justify this pernicious his majesty's regular forces should be augmeasure, at least nothing more than this, mented." When, he asked, had this im that the change of service would be advan-portant discovery been made? Was it tageous to the country. He admitted that not known at the passing of the act of last this was to a certain degree the case, but session, when the right hon. gent. told us then the question must be considered with reference to other points, and in this view it would be found to be calculated to produce a great deal of mischief. The fact was, that the object of the bill was to supply the defects of the parish bill; that notable production, that wonderous conception which had been called a rural nymph, clad in russet gown. The gentlemen on the other side, would wish, no doubt, to give her a more splendid name. They would call her Minerva, the goddess

to count months and weeks and days and hours, till such an augmentation could be obtained? He contended, that the preamble of this bill ought to be, "Whereas an act was passed last session for augmenting his majesty's regular forces, which act, had totally failed in its object, it is there, fore necessary, that said act should be repealed." This he maintained was the language that ought to be employed, inasmuch as a bill that was to have produced 27,000 men had not produced a single,

man to our infantry. This would have been telling the truth, and truth was a very good thing in an act of parliament.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer observed that there was a small objection to such a preamble, which was that it was contrary to the fact.

made on the inefficacy of the additional force bill, were wholly without foundation. The recruiting, under the sanction of that bill, was proceeding with every prospect of advantage, and by these means, from 180 to 200 men per week were added to the service in G. Britain and Ireland. Was Mr. For said, that if the right hon. gent. it to be said, that a measure productive, meant to say that the preamble proposed at the rate of 10,000 men per annum, was by his hon. friend, was contrary to the idle and nugatory? What was advanced fact, because it mentioned that the bill with respect to the injustice of the bill had not procured one man, he was certainly now under consideration, was equally inin the right, because it had certainly pro-applicable; the intention was not to force duced more than one. But to say that the men from the militia regiments, but this bill was any thing else than a repeal of merely to receive those under a compethe former to a certain extent, was most tent reward, who were anxious to join the certainly erroneous, because if this was regular establishment. not the case, what was the meaning of the Mr. For rose to explain, that the bill boasting promises which were heard when could properly be denominated inefficient, the former bill was proposed? Could the because it was professedly to raise 27,000 right hon. gent. not tell last year that such men immediately, and it had wholly disa bill as this would be necessary, notwith-appointed this design.

Mr. For insisted, that it had, at least, totally failed of effecting what was promised from it.

last year.

standing his former measure? This was a The Secretary at War affirmed, in reply, curious circumstance; but the truth was, that, from its effects hitherto, there was that it was then inconvenient to tell us every reason to conclude that it was alany such thing. But he now found it out ready producing at the rate of 10,000 men in the month of March. Was it because annually. the recruiting of the army was at a stand? Why he had not proposed it earlier in the session, he could not tell, unless it were because he did not choose to be the first to Mr. Sheridan begged to observe, in exconfess that his bill had failed. The men planation, that he did not say that the act now to be raised, could not be perfect re- of last session had not produced a single gular soldiers for some time, after they man to our general force, but that it had not changed their service. But the plain truth added a single man to the British infantry, was, that the right hon. gent. had so ab-which by the returns on the table was used the incapacity of the last ministers, considerably less in number than in the that he found himself absolutely obliged to propose something new; but his novel- Mr. Windham commented upon the ty had failed, and now came another of curious definition of success given by the his temporary experiments; and however Secretary at War. The success he, howcivility might prevent the expressions of ever, apprehended ought to have been in triumph from being too galling, yet when proportion to the promise. If 27,000 men the colleagues of the right hon. gent. re- were promised, and only 2 or 3,000 were collected and compared the epithets with produced, it could not be said that this was which he then honoured them, with the any great success. If a man were to evidence his own measures have given in promise to walk to York in four days, his favour, whether in convivial meetings and had stopped the greater part of the or in political consultations, they must time at Stamford, it might be said to him feel a considerable pleasure, and even a Why don't you get on! you will not be degree of exultation. His chief objectionable to perform your promise." He might to the present bill was, that it was part of answer to this, "Pray have patience a little, that patchwork, temporizing, and unsys-I am tired, and must stop for some time, tematic mode which characterized all the but never fear, I shall make out my jour military measures of the right hon. gent.ney in "good time to save my credit.". and from which experience taught us to Now, this might be very well as a promise, expect nothing." O mig det galthough certainly it would not be a very The Secretary at War said, that the promising undertaking.We were first told, observations which were so cofffidently give it a trial, and then it will succeed."

But now the matter was carried much was proper to convert the indisposable farther, for we were told that it actually into disposable force, as much as possible. had succeeded. But it certainly could He was surprised to hear the right hon. not be said with truth, with regard to the gent. say, that, to obtain the militia for past time, and, fortunately for the right hon. the army, was not an increase of force, gent. who made the assertion, there were when he had been all along contending no other documents for any other time. that the usefulness of troops did not He said that 180 or 200, men were pro-depend on their numbers. Again, the cured weekly. This might be the case charge of inconsistency lay with those at present, but a very different result who thought that an immediate reduction might be given at the conclusion. A very should take place, and yet opposed this small difference in the centre made a very measure. There might be differences as wide one in the circumference. He de- to the node, but it was curious to hear nied that this was an increase to our those who wished for the reduction of the force, and dwelt upon the impolicy of militia oppose all modes for that purpose. making the militia officers discontented. Some were for the gradual, and others for He contended, that so far as the present the immediate abolition of the slave trade; measure would be successful, it was a but it would be curious to hear one conrepeal of the former. Why did not gen- tend for the abolition, and yet refuse both tlemen call things by their proper names, of these methods. Considering all the and say that this was a bill for transform- objections, he was at a loss to guess to what ing militia-men into regular soldiers? Was they would come at last. They objected their system so very changeable, that the to different descriptions of force, and rerecollection of their former measures quired that an exigency should be stated, passed away like visions; or did they and then attacked this measure as being a think that they had performed something compromise. In a free country, every like a military manœuvre, that they had transaction of this nature necessarily parmarched away in silence without the beat took of the form of a compromise; and of drum, and left only their tents standing, upon the whole he thought that there was that we might not be aware that the main nothing solid in the objections to this body had stolen away under cover of the measure. night. They had said, however, that their former measure had not had a fair trial, and accordingly they had more time given for the accomplishing of their object. But now it seemed that it was put off ud Græcas Calendas, in order to make way for this new plan.

Mr. Giles was astonished at the bold assertion, that the present bill was not a repeal of the additional force bill. The latter had three objects in view: 1st, to establish a permanent force; 2d, immediately to augment that force; 3d, gradually to reduce the militia: and this Mr. Canning observed, that the right threefold design appeared in the preamble hon. gent. must forego the satisfaction of the bill. The present bill, in the third which he seemed to derive from the idea object, by transferring 17,000 men from of the bill being a repeal of the former. the militia to the regular force, so far, at The operation of that bill was never in- least, manifestly repeals the former. Anotended to supply the vacancies that were ther object was comprised in the former, to be filled up by the present measure. which was to extinguish ballots. These lle must also forego the gratification of must be revived by the present bill; and the confession that the former bill had so far again, the anterior measure was refailed. There was a difference between a pealed. He was not at all surprised at the total and a partial failure. The whole coutradiction between these expedients, failure that had taken place, and that was but at least they ought to be recognized admitted, was, that the men had not been and understood. It ought to be known, procured in so short a time as had been that the minister himself acknowledged, expected, The best proof that it had not that the objections he had made with so failed was that it was producing at the much animation to preceding schemes of rate of 9000 men a year for the army. national defence were vain and futile, and There was no inconsistency here. Be-that he himself was at last constrained to cause the former measure was not calcu-tread in the steps of his predecessor. The lated to produce an immediate disposable additional force bill, by a strange inconforce. It was agreed on all bands that it sistency, required the parish to supply the