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would not withdraw, as he was then about -The bill was then ordered to be comto move the resolution for continuing it. mitted to-morrow, and the house to be sumMr. D. B. Daly said, he had that day re-moned. ceived instructions from his constituents, to oppose the measure, but he should wait for the bringing in of the bill.-The several resolutions were then agreed to, and ordered to be reported to-morrow. Adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Tuesday, March 14. [MUTINY BILL.Previous to the 2d reading of the Mutiny bill,

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[STATE OF THE NAVY.-Earl Darnley rose for the purpose of submitting to their lordships, agreeably to the notice he had given, a number of motions for the production of papers, necessary for instituting a comparison between the late and present Boards of Admiralty. It was not his wish, in the present stage of the proceedings, to go into a wide field of discussion; sufficient opportunities would offer for that in a more The Marquis of Buckingham rose, and advanced stage of them. He would, at begged leave to call the attention of the present, confine himself to reading his moHouse to the innovations which had been tions, to the greater part of which he unmade on that bill since it was last before derstood no objections would be made, and their lordships, particularly in those clauses to make such comments on them as he by which the presidents of the regimental thought necessary for explaining their tencourts martial are required to be on oath dency to their lordships. There were two themselves, and to administer paths to the great points to which he wished to direct other members of the court, and to the the attention of the house, and upon which -witnesses to be examined. The noble mar- he was chiefly anxious to obtain informaquis stated that it was not his intention, on tion. The first respected the deficiency of these grounds, to oppose the 2d reading of small craft; one, as their lordships might -the bill, but merely to call the attention of recollect, of the most serious accusations their lordships, and of the noble carl who against. the late naval administration; and forwarded the public business through this the next applied to the practice of contractHouse, to the alterations which he had no-ing for ships to be built in merchants' yards. ticed. He had at the same time to regret, -in common with the noble and learned lord on the woolsack, the disagreeable situation in which that House often felt itself placed, of either impeding the business of the nation, by interfering in bills to which, by the usage of parliament, any alteration made by them must prove fatal, or of passing bills which were grossly defective and objectionable.

With respect to the first point, he was informed, that a number of ships had been bought up for the king's service, which, in the opinion of many persons professionally qualified to decide, and also of those who were appointed to command them, were totally unfit for the particular line of service to which they were destined. All of those had been purchased at a most extravagant Lord Walsingham conceived that the ob-rate, and before the public had derived any -servations of the noble marquis were irre-benefit from them, it was found necessary gular and premature. He knew it was in that they should undergo ample repairs, the contemplation of the noble earl (Camwhich were effected upon terms even more dem) when he should come to move the 2d reading of the bill, to notice the alterations to which the noble marquis had alluded, The Earl of Camden having moved the $2d reading of the bill, recapitulated the different alterations which it had been deem. -ed adviseable to make on it.

extravagant than the original purchase. His lordship said, he would read his motions, and comment upon them as they occurred; the first was for an Account of all the Ships which have been purchased for his maj.'s Navy, since 16th May, 1804, specifying from whom, their age and tonnage; the vaThe Duke of Clarence said, it could by luation put on them by the officers of the no means be supposed that it was his wish, Dock-yards, the sums paid for them, the at such a period, to object to the present expence of fitting them as ships of war in bill. It was his intention, however, when the merchant and King's yards, and of any the bill should be proposed to be committed, alterations made in them, since they were sto call the attention of the house to the al first fitted." To this, he understood, no ob(terations which had now for the first time jection was likely to be offered, and therebeen introduced. He should therefore move fore he would not trouble their lordships that the house be summoned for the day on with any observations on it. His next mowhich! the bill was meant to be committed.tion would be for "Copies of all letters and C

representations which have passed between were a smaller number of men employed in the adiniralty and Navy Boards, and be-the king's yards on the 1st March, 1805, tween those boards and the commissioners than on the 1st March, 1804; the number or other officers of the Dock-yards, respecting at the latter period being 9336, whereas these ships; also of all representations from those employed at the commencement of their commanders, respecting their unfit the present month amounted only to 3213, ness to perform the services of ships of war." being 123 less than the establishment at the If this last motion should be refused, as being same period last year. His next motion too general, he should have no objection to would be for "Á List of his maj.'s ships , omit any part of it, or to make any altera- which have been ordered to be repaired in tion in it that the noble viscount at the head the merchants' yard since 1st June, 1804." of the admiralty should require or suggest. He would next move for "A List of ships The letters which he was principally anxious of war ordered to be built or contracted for to obtain, were those from the commanders from the above period, up to the present of the Hindostan and the Hyæna, two ships time, specifying the dates of such orders or which had been taken into the service. One contracts, and the rate at which such conof those he understood to be an old West tracts have been made." If the workmen Judiaman, whose back had been broken, in the king's yards were properly classed, which was reported not fit for service, and there would be no occasion to build in the which, notwithstanding that representation, merchants' yards. In the former he underhad been purchased at an expence of some-stood that at present a 74-gun ship could be thing above 7,000l.-His next motion would built for 211. per ton; whereas, if he was be for "An Account of the expence of rightly informed, the contracts lately enarming of these ships, specifying the num-tered into with the merchant-builders aber, nature, and calibre of the guns, which mounted to the enormous sum of 361. per they were reported to be capable of carrying ton. Let the house and the country conwhen they were purchased, and of any alte-trast the difference between those expences, rations which have been since made." This and then they would be enabled to form an he understood would be conceded to him. idea of the provident management of the His next motion would be for "Copies of persons by whom the naval administration all representations which have been made of the country was at present conducted.→ by the commanders of these ships on the He would next move for "An Account subject of their guns." As 'it was possible of the sums paid by the Navy Board, and to some objections might be urged against the whom, for the Repair of the following Ships -granting of this, he would not, if it should in the Merchants' Yards, in the years exbe refused, persevere in pressing it. His pressed against their names, viz. Boston, next motion would be for "An Account Maidstone, 1783; Southampton, Niger, of the number of artificers and labourers, Lizard, Pearl, 1784; Carysfort, 1785; who have discharged themselves from his Lowestoffe, 1786; Boston, 1791; Retrimaj.'s Dock-yards at Deptford and Wool-bution, L'Amiable, Tartar, Success, Ariwich, in each month, since 1st June, 1804, specifying their several classes, age, and time of service." Neither this, nor the following, would, he believed, be refused. "The number of shipwrights borne in all the Yards, on the 1st of March, 1805."When those two last motions should be complied with, he had strong reasons for sup-sums for which ships of the same size and posing that it would appear to the satisfaction of every noble lord who heard him, that fewer shipwrights were borne in the king's yards at the commencement of the present month, than at the corresponding period last year. His lordship here stated the number of men who had been discharged from the different yards at various times by the late Board of Admiralty, some of whom were superannuated, and others dismissed for misconduct. He contended that there

adne, 1792; Magicienne, Dedalus, Andromache, Flora, Fury, Bull-dog, 1793. The repairs of these 20 ships, he was informed, had cost 298,8841. when they might have been built in the royal yards for a sum not amounting to half that sum. His last motion would be for," An Account of the

force might have been built at the same period, according to the contract prices then paid to the merchant-builders." It was not his intention to say any thing at that time upon the comparative merits of the late and present naval administrations. He meant nothing personal to the noble lord at the head of that department; his object was to institute an enquiry, the result of which he thought would be beneficial to the country, into one of the most important parts of its

priety of that measure, he challenged discus sion, and would be happy to meet the noble lord when the subject should be fairly. brought before the house. As to the cal culations with which the house had been entertained, it would be premature in him to discuss them then; when they should be regularly before their lordships, he would have an opportunity of inquiring into them, and making deductions from them by no means favourable to the conclusions drawn by the noble lord. If he were to be denominated a culprit, because he had contracts ed for the building of ships in the private yards, he would only say, that he had offends ed in common with almost every board of admiralty, except the last, that had ever ex, isted in the country. The principle upon which they did so was one of the most powers ful, it was one of strong necessity. It would not be possible to keep up the navy of this country in time of war, to maintain it with that formidable and commanding aspect which it ought to preserve, without having recourse to building in the merchants' yards. It was possible, that some new system might have been established, some notable disco

expenditure. However, he could not avoid resort to the facilities for repairing it, affordobserving, that he thought the noble earled by the merchants' yards. Upon the pronear him (St. Vincent) who was lately at the head of that department, was particularly qualified, from his professional knowledge, to discover the abuses which were practised in it. When he was first placed at the head of that board, he set about enquiring into those abuses with an honest and ardent zeal, and having discovered that the most enormous abuses were committed in it, he set about, with a resolution as laudable, the correction and the future prevention of them. For that purpose he proposed the appointment of a commission which had already rendered the most important services to the country, and for the dissolution of which he could discover no one sufficient motive, unless the strange determination should have been adopted of perpetuating those abuses, which it had so industriously developed, and the possible recurrence of which it had suggested the means of preventing. The country, however, which was sensible of the services of the Commissioners of Naval Enquiry, would not suffer itself to be deprived of the advantages of those discoveries and improvements which they had made and suggested; they would not, in so important a branch of their defence and ex-very, superceding the wisdom of all former penditure as the naval department, forego the benefits that might be expected, from a more correct and economical administration of the immense sums that were so freely contributed for maintaining it. He would trespass no longer upon their lordships' time, but move the first resolution.

admiralty boards, might have been made, but neither he, nor those with whom he had acted, thought that the honour, the advantage, or the security of the country would be consulted by a rash departure from the system which had been so long and so benefi cially acted upon. He would, at the same time, frankly acknowledge, that he did not think that the merchants yards were to be built in out of choice; they were employed from necessity in time of war, because the royal yards were not sufficient to meet the exigencies of the service. Whenever the comparative expence of building in the king's and the merchants' yards should fairly become the subject of consideration, he would not decline entering upon the com parison. As to what the noble lord had ad

Lord Melville said, he had no objection to the motion made by the noble lord. It would not be necessary for him to trouble their lordships at much length upon the present occasion; whatever he had to say would come more regularly when the papers, which it was the object of the noble lord's motion to obtain, should be made the foundation of some specific resolutions. He would not shrink from the discussion. There was one point, however, upon which he would, even at the present stage of the proceedings, de-vanced respecting the increase of the price clare himself. If there were any blame applicable to the repairing of ships in the merchant's yards, that blame, he begged it to be understood, he would distinctly take upon himself. He would acknowledge, that he had advised and recommended that the king's ships should be repaired in the merchants' yards; and for this reason, because he thought in the state in which our navy was, it could not be kept up without having

in building ships of war; and the inferences to the disadvantage of the present naval administration, which he supposed he meant to draw from the comparative rates of prices he had moved før, he would ask, was there one of their lordships who could expect to build a house now for the same sum it would have cost 50 or even 20 years ago? The noble lord, he understood, meant to bring forward the question, and it was to be the principal

ed in all other cases; it was seldom very warm at the beginning. At the commencement of a Spanish war, for instance, an ent terprising officer would wish for a better sailer than the ship in which it had been thought proper by his superiors to place him. However, if the noble lord could produce letters complaining of the sailing of ships constructed in the merchants' yards, he could assure him that he could produce as many complaining of the sailing of ships construct ed in the king's yards. As to the observations of officers respecting the fitness of ships for the service, they were, in his opinion, some of the worst criterions to judge by. If vessels were objected to, let them be sur veyed by proper persons, and let not the capricious dislike of an officer be urged as an argument against either taking into or continuing a ship in the service. He did not see the necessity of making, out the long list the noble lord moved for of ships, some of which were built when lord Keppel was at the head of the admiralty. He had no objection to concede to all the motions of the noble lord, except the latter part of the second, and the whole of the fourth-The motions were then put, with the necessary exceptions, and granted.Adjourned.

object of his motion on another day, whether it would be advisable to continue or abandon entirely the practice of building in private yards. That would be a fair mode of bringing it to issue, and one upon which he would have no reluctance to meet the noble lord. For the services in his professional capacity of the noble person in his eye (earl St. Vincent) he had all the respect they deserved; but it was not new in the history of this country that, under the administration of naval lords, the navy had more than once been in danger of mouldering, and had well nigh gone to pieces. He had only to call the attention of their lordships to the naval administration of lord Sandwich, a person regularly bred to the profession, and yet, with the exception of one, the navy fell more into decay under the management of that board, of which he had been at the head, than when it was presided by persons, neither whose habits nor education were professional. When, he would ask, had the navy been most flourish ing? was it not at those periods when it had been superintended by a noble earl in his eye (Spencer), and another noble earl (Chatham) whom he did not see in his place? Under whose management of the naval department, were the victories of earl Howe, earl St. Vincent, lord Duncan, and lord Nelson, gained? He had no objection that as Thursday, March 14. fuil an enquiry as possible should be institut- [MINUTES.] A message from the lords ed into the conduct of the late and present announced, that they had agreed to the Plea admiralty boards, but he did not intend that sure Horse duty, and some private bills, the question should be decided upon the do- Mr. J. Fitzgerald moved, that there be cuments moved for by the noble lord. He laid before the house, an account of the would also bring forward some documents, charges outstanding on the surplus of the tending to illustrate the former invariable consolidated fund of Ireland, and of the sums practice of the board of admiralty, upon paid thereon, up to the 5th Jan. 1805. He most of the points touched on by the noble also moved for an account of the sums of lord. It was not his intention to object to money advanced by the commissioners of any of the material documents moved for by the navy in Ireland; the amount of the unthe noble lord; there were, however, some funded debt of the navy; a return of the of the papers which he did not think would balances of arrears, specifying the times of be prudent to have produced. He would, payment of the same; and a return of the therefore, wish that part of the second Re-payments stated to be due, but not payable, solution beginning at the words " also of all till after the 5th Jan. 1805; all of which representations," to the conclusion, should were agreed to. be omitted, and that the whole of the 4th resolution should be expunged. He did not think, being copies of letters from commanders of ships, that they were extremely important in the consideration of the great question it was the object of the noble lord to bring forward. He was aware that of ficers, as it had been observed, were often in love with their ships, but the progress of the passion here was different from what obtain

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

[IRISH COUNTY ELECTIONS.] Colonel Bagwell called the attention of the house to the subject of which he had given notice. It was for leave to bring in a bill to amend an act of the 35th of his majesty for regulat ing the election of persons to serve in parliament, so far as relates to freeholds of 201. a year in Ireland. He declined entering into the detail. The object was to regulate the mode in which the freeholder was to ob

tain his certificate by which he was entitled | rious and weighty importance, and relative to vote at an election for the county; a sub- to which something decisive ought to take ject liable to great and enormous abuses, ac- place before the end of the session. The cording to the present practice, Having noble lord seemed to refer to cases of a sistated the outline of his plan, he concluded milar nature with that now pending with rewith moving," that leave be given to bring spect to the proceedings in the instance of in a bill to amend the said act, so far as re- Judge Fox. With a reference to the prinlates to freeholds under the value of 201.- ciple he had in contemplation, he acquaint Agreed to. ed their lordships, that he should, on Tues day next, bring forward three propositions for the consideration of the house, in the shape of motions, nearly to the following effect: Ist. That a committee be appointed to search for precedents of cases of a mem ber of that house bringing forward, in his place, accusations or charges against an individual, either upon his own authority, upon hearing, or upon the authority or informa tion of others, &c. 2d. For an inquiry into precedents of the modes of proceeding adopted in that house in cases of charges made against individuals, otherwise than matters of record, or by petitions presented to that house; and, 3d. For an examination into precedents respecting complaints exhi bited against any of his majesty's judges previous to the act of W. IIL. &c.-His lordship then moved, that the lords be sum moned for Tuesday next.

KNARESBOROUGH ELECTION. Lord W. Russell moved the order of the day, for taking into consideration the special report of the committee of the late election for the borough of Knaresborough, which being read, he moved, that the house do concur in the first resolution. He said there was no occasion for his making any comments upon facts, which were sufficiently proved in the evidence before the committee, and since submitted to the house. Upon mature consideration, it was his opinion, and that of the committee, that, as the delinquents had not been parties before them, and consequently had not been heard in their own defence, instead of bringing them to the bar of the house, and hearing the whole of the evidence de novo, it would be much more desirable to move, as he then did, "that the following delinquents, viz. J. M. Allen, R. Dewes, T. Abbott, W. Whitehead, Anne Howeton, W. Allison, and S. Henlock, be prosecuted by the Attorney General."

Mr. Rose expressed his perfect satisfaction in this procedure, and the more so, as, if the allegations against one of the delinquents, J. M. Allen, an attorney, were true, the noble lord who presided in the court of king's bench had the power to strike him off the rolls; for though country attorneys had the means of rendering themselves useful and respectable, they were often the pests of the neighbourhood in which they lived.

The Master of the Rolls said, that though he was not forward in countenancing prosecutions on the part of the attorney general by order of that house, yet he must approve of the present, as the tumult did not appear to be accidental, but of a premeditated and studied nature, He, however, should like to know whether any other prosecution had been commenced against these parties The several motions were then agreed to. -Adjourned.

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Lord Grenville expressed his opinion, that a question arising out of the intended motion first described by the noble lord, should be referred to the consideration of the twelve judges.

Lord Auckland replied, that a question of the kind had been nearly decided in a case that occurred in the year 1663.—The question being put, the lords were ordered to be summoned for Tuesday next.

[MUTINY BILL.-The order of the day being read, for the commitment of this bill, the different clauses and provisions of the bill were agreed to by the committee, until that which contains the provisions for compelling the administration of oaths to witnesses, on regimental courts martial, was arrived at; when

The Marquis of Buckingham rose and expressed his disapprobation of that part of the clause, as well in point of policy, as in the view of military regulation. He thought the old and uniform practice, with respect to regimental courts martial, should be continued. In the course of his long experi ence, he had never heard a single complaint made, or one objection urged against it. The soldiers very seldom appealed from the decision of the regimental to the general courts martial; and, in the few instances

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