the proceedings of committees chosen by | sition meeting the sense of their lordships, ballot, the country owed the highest ob- it was ordered accordingly. ligations, and he trusted his friends would not be diverted from following the ancient practice of the house in the best times by any insinuations of sinister motives. After a few words from Mr. Grey, the house divided on the motion for a ballot. Ayes 251; noes 120; majority 131.-Adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

[WEST INDIA ACCOUNTS.] The Earl of Suffolk, after shortly adverting to a recent communication which he had with the noble secretary of state, then in his place, observed, he should have to move their lordships with respect to the production of certain very important public accounts. He was aware that documents of this nature should not in general be produced, except adequate parliamentary or public grounds were laid for their exposition. In the present instance, he was confident the ground he should proceed on was unobjectionable in these points of view; it was

Friday, April 26. [MINUTES.] The consideration of the appeal cause, Cathcart, Bart. v. the earl of Cassilis, being resumed, Mr. H. Erskine was heard on behalf of the noble respon-no less than that of public delinquency, dent-The bills upon the table, chiefly of which, he had reason to think, he could a private or local description, were read in make appear, in case the documents he their several stages.-The lord Chancellor should forthwith move for were granted to called the attention of their lordships to him; and this consideration, without going the great number and accumulation of ap- farther, he would aver, was an adequate peal causes and writs of error which now and sufficient reason for their production. lay over for consideration, particularly The noble earl then moved, “That an with respect to those which came from humble address be presented to his majesIreland and Scotland. According to the ty, praying that he would be graciously present mode of proceeding, the attention pleased to order that there be laid before of their lordships could not be regularly the house, an account of all monies and drawn to some of these, perhaps for years. sums drawn from the West Indies, upon It would be important that some line his majesty's treasury, from the 1st of Dec. should be endeavoured to be struck out, or 1798, to the 1st of Dec. 1802, specifying some arrangements formed, with a view to the amount of the respective drafts, the the more regular and expeditious hearing time of their being respectively drawn, aud or disposal of these causes, in reference to the different times of payment." the concerns of the parties, as well as to Lord Hawkesbury said, he did not rise the business of the house. Under this im-to oppose the motion, the nature of which pression, he should move for the appoint- the noble earl had communicated to him ment of a committee of their lordships, to a few minutes since; but, to express his take the subject, which was one in every opinion generally, that documents of the point of view of great importance, into kind should not be produced, unless some consideration. In such a proceeding, the adequate parliamentary or public grounds order of rotation for hearing, in which the were laid for such production. Such modifferent cases at present stood, the re- tions should not be made, as he feared, spective general natures of the cases, and was sometimes the case, idly, or upon also the places from whence the appeals light grounds. For, independent of other were made, should be taken into conside-important considerations, it should be reration. It was his idea that their lordships collected, that such proceedings induce who were present this session should be great inconvenience, at different public empowered to sit in such a committee. offices, and sometimes so as materially to His lordship then moved to the following interfere with the necessary dispatch of effect: "That a committee of the Lords public business. To the present motion present this session be appointed to take he had no objection; nor did he mean, into consideration the different appeals and in any thing said, the least to call in queswrits of error now pending before the tion the general right of parliament, on house, with a reference to a more regular, sufficient grounds, to call for official inconvenient, and expeditious mode of hear- formation; more especially in what (and ing and proceeding on the same; and that which was peculiarly and constitutionally the said committee do commence its pro-its province) concerned the public expenceedings on Tuesday next."-This propo-diture..

The Earl of Suffolk acquiesced in the ob- sundry papers therein referred to.-Mr. servations of the noble secretary of state. Creevey referred to, some observations There was one expression which, he said, which had been made some time since on he was sorry had fallen from him, namely, the subject of the revenue of the Isle of a motion idly made. This by no means Man. It might be recollected that it was could apply to that which he had just sub-then stated that the surplus of the revenue mitted to the house; for, if he were not greatly mistaken, or misinformed, he could ground, upon the documents moved for, a charge of delinquency on the part of the treasury.

Lord Hawkesbury explained, that it was obvious, that what he stated generally could not be intended to apply to the motion of the noble earl, inasmuch as he expressly stated he did not mean to oppose it. The question was then put, and the address ordered accordingly.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

of that island for six years had amounted to the sum of 20,000/. Upon enquiry inte its application, it was said that in the year 1802, the sum of 3,000l. had been paid into the Exchequer, and passed over to the consolidated fund, notwithstanding there was a specific act of parliament against such application. Of course there was the sum of 17,000l. remaining for the purposes of the island. The hon. member then gave notice, that he would on Friday next move for a committee to enquire into the application of the remainder of the surplus revenue of the Isle of Man.

Mr. Sturges Bourne moved, that a committee be appointed to examine the lists, and to report to the house the names of the twenty-one members who had the ma

Friday, April 26. [BALLOT FOR A SELECT COMMITTEE ON [MINUTES.] A new writ was ordered THE 10th NAVAL REPORT.] On the for Bleachingley, in the room of James motion of the Chancellor of the Exche Mills, Esq. deceased.-Sir John Newport, quer, the order of the day for balloting a after observing that the order of the house Select Committee, was read. The serjeant made on the 7th March last, for an ac-at arms having, in pursuance of order, count of the expences of state prosecutions gone to the speaker's chambers, the court in Ireland, had not been complied with, of requests, and places adjacent, to summoved that it be forthwith complied with. mon the members, the balloting proceeded. Ordered. On the motion of Sir John When all the names of the members had Newport, it was ordered that the several been read by the clerk, and when those papers presented yesterday from the office who chose to vote had deposited their lists of the Chief Secretary for Ireland, be in the balloting glass, printed. Sir John Anderson brought up a bill for making a Tunnel under the Thames, from the parish of Rotherhithe, in Surrey, to the parish of St. John Wapping, in Middlesex. Read a first, and or-jority of votes. dered to be read a second time.-On the Mr. Whitbread rose, and said he had still motion of Mr. Rose, the Thames Lastage stronger reasons now than he had yesterand Ballastage bill was read a second time. day, for his objection to the mode of pro-Sir M. W. Ridley observed, that this ceeding by ballot. He was then apprebill repealed all the regulations of former hensive that such a mode would, in fact, acts, and substituted other very important subject the nomination of that committee ones which required a good deal of consi- to the influence and dictation of a minister. deration; he therefore requested the right This day he found those apprehensions hon. gent. would not push it immediately strengthened, by a very confident rumour through a committee, but allow a few days circulated, upon he knew not what authofor that purpose: to which Mr. Rose ac-rity, that, notwithstanding all the apparent ceding, the bill was ordered to be commit- fairness and impartiality of a ballot, yet ted to a committee of the whole house on that the names to be returned upon the Monday fortnight.-On the motion of sir committee were pre-determined by the A. S. Ilammond, it was ordered that there minister; by which the business of the be laid before the house a copy of a letter ballot was converted into a solemn from the Comptroller of the Navy to the mockery, and rendered wholly nugatory as Board of Admiralty, dated 22d April, 1805, to the obvious intentions of the house. A on the subject of the evidence printed in list of those names had been this day put the 11th Report of the Commissioners of into his hand, which he would now read Naval Enquiry; together with copies of in his place-Lord Castlereagh, Mr. Whit

bread, Master of the Rolls, Mr. W. Wind- were ordered forthwith to the speaker's ham, sir W. Scott, Mr. T. Grenville, Mr. chamber. Ryder, lord George Cavendish, lord Dunlo, Mr. Sheridan again rose, and observed, lord W. Russell, Mr. Leycester, Mr. St. that his hon. friend had just read a list of John, Mr. Foster, Mr. H. Lascelles, sir H. members, which he (Mr. W.) had been Mildmay, Mr. S. Thornton, Mr. J. Fane, given to understand the scrutineers would lord Boyle, Mr. Cartwright, Mr. Hawkins return, in consequence of the pre-concerted Brown, Mr. Gunning. If the list of the instructions received from ministers. Now committee to be returned by the scrutineers it was extremely important for the house should tally with the names he had read, to ascertain whether the committee, for the fact he had just stated would be too the appointment of which it had already palpable to admit of the smallest doubt; decided, was to be fairly and bona fide and by that circumstance he should be chosen by a ballot; or whether that ballot guided in such steps as he should feel him- was to be rendered nugatory, and the comself bound to adopt under such a circum-mittee to be really nominated by governstance. Many of the names in this list ment, to the flagrant deception of the were undoubtedly of high respectability, house, and the probable defeat of its ob and highly eligible; but every man must be ject. An hon. member, last night, had sensible, that many others of them were proposed a mode of selecting the committee, men whose situations and known senti-which he was persuaded would have been ments rendered them totally ineligible to much more likely to have obtained a fair any thing like fair and impartial enquiry and impartial selection, than that which upon the subject of the Tenth Report of was the pleasure of the house to adopt, the Naval Commissioners. If the names namely, to propose the members one at a of those members should appear upon the time from each side of the house, and then list of the committee returned, he should it would have been fairly seen how far his move, however unprecedented such a mo- majesty's ministers were disposed to accede tion might be deemed, to expunge their to that principle of impartial investigation, names from the committee, and to insert to which some of them had professed themothers, not so objectionable, and of course selves so friendly. But he well knew more compatible with the objects contem- from past experience, that the mode adoptplated by the house. ed was not the one likely to obtain an im Mr. For observed, it was very possible partial selection. There was an important that the names of some members might be occasion, some years since, which occurreturned upon the committee, who, how-red to his recollection. It was a ballot proever unobjectionable, could not, without posed for selecting a committee of Eastmost material injury to their own interests India judicature; upon which occasion, as and avocations, devote their attentions to well as on many others well known, it was the business of an investigation, likely to irrefragably and flagrantly obvious, that the be so arduous and of such long duration. ballot for a committee was but a mere He should hope, therefore, that as in the mask for the nomination of the minister; case of election committees, any gentleman and that in fact, the names of the persons so circumstanced, would, upon application to serve had been previously determined to the house, be excused from attendance. by ministers; that the lists of those names Mr. Sheridan hoped, that after the mo- were made up at the treasury, and put by tion now before the house was disposed of, ministers into the hands of their friends. namely, the question upon the list of scru- Now, if the fact was so in the present case, tineers moved by Mr. Sturges Bourne, his it was necessary the house should know it; hon. friend (Mr. Whitbread) would, in and the comparison of the list, in the hand some more explicit way, put the house in of his hon. friend, with the return of the possession of the list of the names he had scrutineers, would be a pretty strong crijust read, in order to lay the foundation terion of the truth. Upon the former ocfor such a measure as might appear neces-casion, to which he had alluded, the busisary, in the result to which he had alluded. -The question on Mr. Bourne's motion was put, that certain members, whom he named, be appointed to select from the ballot; which was agreed to without opposition, and the members appointed

uess was done so openly, that one of the door-keepers of the house put the lists into the hands of members as they entered. He (Mr. S.) had charged the fact upon ministers, and pledged himself to prove it to the house, and he accordingly had moved to

dignity of parliament would be best maintained by passing over in silence such trifling indiscretions. The acting otherwise, would have no other effect than to

have Joseph Pearson, the door-keeper, sent instance was, that the honour and called to the bar and examined. He was however, resisted by the right hon. gent. over the way (Mr. Pitt), and the house divided against it, for the ayes were but 38, and the noes 108. In the present in-countenance them. Parliament ught to stance, he would recommend to his hon. entertain a firmer reliance on its wn recfriend to lay his list on the table, in some titude. Such were his sentiments on this manner which would bring it fairly within occasion, and he hoped, that some other the cognizance of the house. member, better acquainted with the cusMr. Whitbread said, it was his intention toms of the house, would suggest some to ground some proceeding upon the bu-mode by which such a dignified and insiness, in case the list returned by the dependent conduct might still be rigorousscrutineers should correspond with it. ly attended to, even in the present case. The Speaker said, that unless the hon. member meant to conclude by some motion, there was no question now before the house.

Mr. Whitbread said he should then shape a motion, and accordingly moved the following resolution:-"That it is a high breach of the privileges of this house, to circulate lists nominating persons to be chosen on any committee by ballot." The question being then put, the house divided, when there appeared, for the motion, 45; against it, 124; majority, 79.

[PROCEEDINGS RESPECTING THE PRINTER OF "THE ORACLE."] On the motion of Mr. Grey the order of the day for the attendance of Peter Stuart, the printer of the Oracle" was now read.

Mr. Grey said, that if he had conceived this matter to be of light or trivial importance, he

a

complaiould never have made such

There was no member in the house more unwilling than he was to enter complaints against individuals, or to interfere with the free discussion of public affairs. Had the present paragraph been only a free comment on public matters, as the hon. gentleman who had just spoken seemed to imply, he should not have troubled the house on this occasion. It was not difficult, however, to judge of the true nature and bearing of this matter. He who runs might read in the present instance. It was only yesterday he had seen it, and he still retained the same opinion he then did, as to its mischievous Mr. Atkins Wright spoke against the tendency. It could not be viewed at all adoption of any severe measure as to the in the light of a fair discussion of a pubeditor of "the Oracle." Although he lic question. If it did appear to the house was perfectly convinced in his own mind, in a contrary light, he was perfectly wilas to the propriety of supporting the reso-ling to forbear from all further proceedlutions of the house, yet his peace of mindings. To him, however, it bore a very was not at all broke in upon because his different aspect and character. It was no conduct, along with that of other mem-discussion, it was mere invective, absolute bers, had been severely censured. It was and unqualified abuse, tending to vilify well known with what rigour the house the proceedings, degrade the character, had enforced their determination not to and insult the authority of parliament. He restrain any animadversion by the public lamented the necessity he was under of on the conduct of parliament. God for- performing such a duty, and he would bid! said the hon. member, that the peo- willingly have overlooked it, had be not ple of this country should have any im- been convinced that it outstripped all pediments thrown in their way, in discus- bounds of moderation in the candid dissing the conduct of their representatives cussion of public affairs. If the hon. memfairly and freely. Most certainly, such aber who had endeavoured to justify such liberty ought to be exercised in a becoming manner. It was well known, that the publishers of papers were too apt to indulge themselves in discussing what they called party questions. He professed to be of no party; but he felt as much as any man the necessity of maintaining, in all its purity, what was called the liberty of the press. His own opinion in the preVOL. IV.

a manifest infringement of their privileges, should think proper to move that the order be discharged, he should not think it necessary to press his motion any further.The question, which had originally been proposed by Mr. Grey, was then put from the chair "That the printer of the Oracle' be called to the bar of the house."

Mr. Atkins Wright again rose and con2 F

:

jured the house not to make this a matter of all that licence that the house has ever of such consequence. He thought a bare allowed to discussions upon its proceedreprimand would auswer every fair pur-ings out of doors. Sir, I have read this pose in view. article, and I must certainly allow that The Speaker suggested, that the original it is a very severe libel. But when I say motion should first be disposed of, and this, I must at the same time observe, then the house could more readily deter- that though in itself it is extremely immine what course was to be followed. proper, yet when compared with a vast Mr. Windham said, he was not inclined variety of other articles that have appeared to press the matter further, if the house respecting the proceedings of the house, really appeared to agree with the argu- it is by no means so severe. Indeed, in inents and proposition of the hon. gent. this view, it may be said to be mere milk who had just sat down. He should wish and water. But then my hon. friend to know, whether that hon. gent. who had says, "if we are to allow things of this just sat down was disposed to do that, in sort to go on, where are we to stop? Is regard to his own person, which he seemed the house of commons to suffer every sort inclined to do towards the house of com- of censure on its proceedings to pass withmons. Did he (Mr. Wright) mean to say, out any animadversion?" Why, sir, to that he would despise every thing that this I reply, that if the house is about to could be said against him? Really, for adopt a new feeling, and to take notice his part, he could see no reason why mem- of expressions of this sort, after they have bers ought to be more tender of their own so long slumbered, and allowed these things characters, as individuals, than they should to pass unheeded, it ought to give warning be of the character of the house of com- that it has changed its sentiments, in order mons. The not being equally attentive that people may be prepared, and that the character of the house was saying punishment may not fall on a particular to the public," You may say what you individual, where so many are involved please, we do not mind it." If such was in the same sort of delinquency. I do the rule, why not proclaim it? Why not not say that my hon. friend is not persay to the writers of newspapers, you may fectly warranted in the mode of proceedwrite what you choose, there will be no ing which he has adopted; but it is but injury done by your misrepresentations? fair at the same time to observe, that the Was it to be said, that, because the house house has been long in the habit of tolehad passed over a great many instances of rating such paragraphs as that of which a similar nature, we ought on that account complaint is now made. We are accusto pass over every one? This would be tomed to connive at these things. We false logic. The freedom of the press had connive at reporting our debates, and very been too long tolerated, not only to the properly, because I should consider it as injury of public, but private men-not a great, if not a mortal blow to the liberonly to the general degradation of the ties of this country, that the public should higher orders of society, but to the general be kept in ignorance of the proceedings corruption of the lower. The only ques-in parliament. Now, it ought to be retion was, whether the instance now before collected, that we use a great deal more the house was one which went to that ex-freedom with our own characters than we cess as should lead them to interfere to maintain their own dignity. It was impossible, in his opinion, to conceive any thing more gross, injurious, calumnious, and licentious, and therefore he should be guilty of no great vindictive principle, if he should vote for punishing the offender in a certain degree, as a caution to others.

Mr. Sheridan.-Although, sir, no person feels more highly than I do the respect that is due to this house, yet, on this occasion, I certainly do not think that we ought to be too eager in taking notice of this paragraph. My hon. friend has said, that this has overstepped the boundaries

think it just that other men should do. But when people are obliged to report, if they do report well, the severe things which we say of one another in this house, is it not natural that they should fall into an imitation of our style, and speak of us, in some measure, as we do of ourselves? I do therefore think, that in these cases a great allowance ought to be made. I should be extremely sorry that any thing like a prosecution should take place in this instance. My first reason is, that I am a warm friend to the liberty of the press, and the second is, that I very well remember the usual result of such prosecutions.