to the eleventh report; in fact, that it was a general notice. He thought the hon. baronet should have stated what his object was.

tioned in the Gazette of to-morrow; and the notice referred to some papers relative the successor to that noble lord was one who fully answered the description of the hon. gent, and would be satisfactory to the wishes of the nation. (After having sat down, the right hon. gent. mentioned the name of sir Charles Middleton.)

[PAPERS RELATING TO THE ELEVENTH NAVAL REPORT.] Sir A. S. Hamond rose to give notice that he should move, to-morrow, for further papers respecting the Eleventh Report of the Commissioners of Naval Enquiry.

The Speaker remarked, that there was no question before the house on which it could come to any ultimate decision.

Mr. Tierney said, the hon. baronet ought to apprize the house of the object of the motion he intended to bring forward. He supposed the documents he meant to move for, were intended as the medium of attacking a noble lord. If so, it was neces sary that every thing connected with the immediate object of the motion should be before the house.

Mr. Grey rose to take notice, that the hon. comptroller of the navy had, on a day last week, given notice, of a motion connected with the Eleventh Report of the Commissioners of Naval Enquiry. He Sir A. S. Hamond appealed to the wished to know what object the hon. ba- house, that in their recollection, an hon. ronet had in view, in requiring additional member opposite (Mr. Kinnaird) had papers on the subject of that report. The brought forward a similar motion, under hon. baronet had given a notice of a simi- similar circumstances. On that hon. lar nature on a former night without stat-member's motion, papers of a nature ing his object, and on the next day he had parallel to those he had moved for, were come down to the house before the usual ordered, and not a single objection was hour, and had moved for a letter from him- started. self to the Commissioners of Naval Enquiry, Mr. Grey professed his ignorance of the together with certain inclosures. It was circumstance to which the hon. baronet impossible to know what the hon. baronet alluded. As far as his own recollection proposed to himself by the production of extended, the motion of his hon. friend was such documents. What had the house to not brought forward without a specific nodo with his letter to the commissioners? tice. Every member, indeed, knew to If he had any observations or comment to what end it was directed.. Here, on the make upon it, as a member of parliament, contrary, it was perfectly understood that it was open to him to avail himself of an no business of a public nature was to be opportunity of doing so. The proceeding done till after the ballot was formed, the was altogether so extraordinary and irre- hon. baronet introduced his motion in the gular, that he (Mr. Grey) was of opinion absence of all those who might be supposthat the former notice and motion shoulded most anxious to defend the character be expunged, and that the hon. baronet of the noble lord, against any attack which should distinctly state what his object was. might be brought against his public conSir A. S. Hamond said, that upon the oc-duct. He himself had remained to a late casion alluded to, he had taken no ad-hour in expectation of the motion being vantage of the house. It was near five brought forward, and he was at last astoo'clock when he made his motion, and he nished to find, that the hon. baronet had had given full notice of the purpose for brought forward the motion at a time when which he made it. He had stated that the not one of the noble lord's friends were at documents were respecting the evidence all apprized of his intentions. They knew given on the eleventh report before the na-nothing at all of the nature of the papers val commissioners. The house was then to be moved for. They were obliged to be as full as it was at present, and he was not satisfied with the simple explanation, that aware of having been informal or out of they were papers connected with the order. Eleventh Report of the Naval CommisMr. Tierney observed, that on the day sioners.. In fairness to the character of of the hon. baronet's motion, it was un-his noble friend, some opportunity should derstood that a ballot for a select commit-have been given to move for the productee was to take place at four o'clock. He tion of other papers, by which these allecame down anxious to know the nature of gations might have been disproved. All the motion, as all he understood was, that the information, however, which it was

judged necessary by the hon. baronet to ing for such papers as were necessary to convey to the house, was, that it was a his vindication? He believed it would turn collection of documents relative to the out that the document which had been eleventh report. This, surely, was nothing moved for was one which the hon. bart. short of sporting with the dignity of the had had no opportunity to bring forward. house, as well as the character of his noble The hon. baronet had intimated to the friend. Fortunate, indeed it was, that his commissioners that their report would character was far above all suspicion, so convey to the world an erroneous statethat even the partial production of these ment. They declined receiving his statepapers could not injure him in the estima- ment. If then the 11th report reflected on tion of the public. To move for papers, the conduct of the hon. baronet, was his and not to explain to what object they statement in explanation to be rejected, bewere to be applied, was, he would ever cause it might convey an imputation against contend, equally inexpedient and objec-a noble lord, whom some persons thought tionable. A right hon. gent. opposite (Mr. fit to consider above all enquiry? He was Pitt) had attacked an hon. and learned not desirous of entering into a discussion friend of his for not bringing forward his of the motives by which gentlemen were motion on a former evening, on a suffici- actuated in their friendship for the noble ently explicit notice which on enquiry lord. Whatever he had thought of the turned out not to be the fact. It was as noble lord, or now thought of him, he was certained that the notice of his hon. and not disposed to consent that his name learned friend was sufficiently explicit; should be brought forward to prevent the but surely no one member could now come production of a document necessary to the forward and say that the motion of the vindication of a member of the house. The hon. baronet had been intimated in terms motion was for papers materially affecting at all so specific. The house besides had the character of the person who called for here to consider what was demanded. It them. Similar papers had been produced was not a motion for the production of do- by a vote of the house; he was, therefore, cuments to establish the innocence of the at a loss to conceive why in this instance bon, baronet, which would without diffi- they should be objected to. culty be acceded to. It was a motion for Mr. Grey said, the right hon. gentleman the production of a letter containing com- (Mr. Pitt) had not advanced a word in ments on the report of the commissioners. vindication of the manner and time of the If the hon, baronet thought these comments hon. baronet's bringing forward his motion, necessary, he, as a member of the house, but simply that to deny it would be inconhad an opportunity of stating them in his sistent with the justice due to an indivi place. It was not consistent with the dig-dual; and that, as the report reflected nity of parliament to receive them in any materially on the hon. baronet, he ought other form. It was one of the first instan- not to be precluded from moving for that ces of letters of individuals being thus at- which was necessary to his own defence. tempted to be placed before parliament, By no means. God forbid, that he should and he trusted the practice would be effec-be denied any paper necessary to his justually checked. The house, it appeared tification. What he complained of was, to him, were called on to expunge the motion for the production of the papers in question.

that the hon. baronet moved for documents comprising letters, without stating for what they were intended. Had he The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, it moved for specific documents, the propriewas his earnest wish that the hon. gent.ty of granting them might have been can(Mr. Grey) would give effect to his threat, vassed; but the hon. baronet had moved and move to expunge the notice, if he for a letter from himself to the admiralty, thought it was wrong; but surely he ought inclosing other documents, without any first to recollect what it was. It was for information which might enable those cona copy of the evidence of the comptroller cerned to supply the deficiency of such of the navy before the commissioners rela- papers, supposing they should be incomtive to the eleventh report. Now, when plete. He repeated that it was an unfair it was known that the eleventh report con-proceeding. In what situation would the tained comments on the conduct of the public be, if any person could, by writing person who had made the motion, was it a letter to the admiralty, get the inclosures ust that he should be shut out from mov-printed and laid before the house of com

redound to his honour.

mons? Such a practice might lead to the house. Nobody knew to what these do circulation of he knew not what trash. If cuments referred. Even now he was at the letter was a justification of the hon. a loss to develope them. There were no baronet, let it be produced in a fair and titles to them. He desired to know honourable mode. Public rumour had whether it was fair that papers so pro induced him to believe it related to an duced should be printed. attack on a noble lord; if so, his friends Mr. Tierney wished the papers to be ought to have an opportunity of supplying laid on the table for two or three days be any defect in the papers it contained. A fore they were printed. If they were right hon. gent. had supposed that he (Mr.printed in their present state, they might Grey) had intimated that the noble lord create an impression which supplemen was above enquiry. He had never said so. tary documents might not be able to He had said, that the noble lord was above remove. Both the hon. baronet and the attack, and if there was any imputation noble lord were in a situation which mo against him, he challenged it. Ile was so man of honour could submit to. The convinced of the noble lord's integrity, hon. baronet desired that he might not be that he had no doubt any enquiry would condemned unheard. He (Mr. Tierney) was equally anxious that his noble friend Sir A. S. Hamond maintained, that he should not be condemned unheard. He had taken the most regular and orderly thought the better way would be to move way in bringing forward his complaint. for a committee to consider the eleventh In the 11th report, the comptroller of the report. All he was desirous of was, that navy was particularly reflected upon. a mutilated case should not be laid before There was one part of the evidence which the public. reflected on him in a way that no person The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, of feeling could pass over. Either the there was an equal desire that justice noble lord or himself must stand in a should be done to both parties. The situation in which no man of honour question was, whether the house would would wish to be placed. He had written put the hon. baronet in a situation of ha a letter to the commissioners, to desire ving hostile evidence adduced against him, that he might be re-examined. After a lest the documents in his vindication lapse of seventeen days, he was told, that might possibly reflect on another person. the report having been submitted to the No doubt, the comptroller of the navy three branches of the legislature, his re-ought to have the full benefit of these pas quest could not be complied with. Ile pers; they were calculated to elucidate was at the head of an inferior board, and points relative to the hon. baronet's justiit was material to him to prove that he fication, An hon. gent. had observed, was not the person alluded to in the that it was competent to move for a comeleventh report. He had written a letter mittee. Was it not also competent to any to that effect to the commissioners of the one to move for a vote of censure against admiralty, and had desired them to look the hon. baronet upon the report? It. over the documents, to convince them- was not unusual in the course of debate selves he had acted right. These were for gentlemen to form different views of a the papers he had moved for. The house subject, and even when notice had been was full at the time, and if he had done it given of a particular motion, it had been five minutes too early, he had no inten- discovered in a few hours that the motion tion to take the house by surprize. which before was considered the best, Mr. W. Dickenson presented at the bar would prove the worst that could be ad "a copy of the letter of the comptroller of opted. He concluded by moving that the navy to the commissioners of the ad-the papers should be read...

miralty, dated April 22, 1805, relative to Mr. For observed, that the case before the evidence contained in the eleventh the house was involved in intricacy. The report of the commissioners of naval en-whole seemed to have arisen from an irquiry, together with its inclosures." On regularity the most strange and extraor the motion that the papers do lie on the dinary that ever crept into the proceedings. table, it appearing that the inclosures had of that house of parliament. The hon. no titles,

Mr. Grey doubted whether this was such a proceeding as ought to satisfy the

baronet thought, that his character being. attacked by the eleventh report, it was his business to move for certain documents.

quiry, but it was above all suspicion that could be thrown upon it without enquiry. Now the inclosures were produced, the house did not know what they were; the clerk could not read them, because they had no titles. He wished to have the titles of these documents. He regretted that the house should have unnecessarily got into so difficult a state of proceeding.

there was any impropriety or irrregularity in the proceeding. One of the papers was a letter from sir A. S. Hamond; the other, a letter from Mr. Tucker: they were both under similar circumstances.

Mr. George Ponsonby was of opinion. that the papers ought not to be read, as they could not be read in the ordinary way, having no tities. The hon. baronet had not specified what any one of the papers was, but had stated that they would shew the house he was at issue with lord St. Vincent, and that one or the other must stand in a situation in which no man of honour would wish to stand. The letter, therefore, did not contain a defence of the hon. baronet, but a new and distinct crimination of lord St. Vincent. He was bound then to state the nature of the documents, that lord St. Vincent's friends might move for

Nothing could be more right. But, was rited. His character was not above en it right to conceal any thing? Instead of referring to the documents A, B, or C, the hon, baronet referred them all to the inclosures of a certain letter. The house should consider the difference between evidence and comment. If the hon. baronet had not the documents necessary to his defence, certainly it would be unfair; but if his comment on them had been emitted, it would have been competent in Mr. W. Dickenson, jun. did not conceive him to have made it, as a member of parliament, in his place. If he had stated what the inclosures were, all this difficulty would have been avoided. Had he pointed them out by specific titles, it would have been competent to any gentleman to have this or that by itself, which may mislead the house, and therefore it will be necessary to move for some other papers. It had been stated, that the papers had been moved for at a certain time of the day a very fit time, he granted, to move for such documents. No man could say that any observation in the hon. baronet's power to make personally, could be more availing in writing. It was important to have the whole of the documents before the public; but to have the comment without the text, was not that state of the business which the house of commons ought to be satisfied with. The right other papers, if necessary. hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt) had observed, that The Attorney General observed, that the house had seen changes on a former if any other person but lord St. Vincent day, with respect to certain motions of were the, object of the motion, no oban hon. friend of his (Mr. Whitbread).jection would be made to laying the doThe fact was, that his hon. friend, so far cuments on the table. But was there not from having abandoned his notice, had a report on the table charging the hon. babeen driven out of it by the majority of ronet with having omitted to have informthe house. He wished to know whether ed the first lord of the admiralty of certhere was any thing deserving reproach, tain important transactions? He had lookor that could reflect on the understanding ed into the introductory letter since the or sedateness of his hon. friend, by the commencement of the discussion, by which course he had adopted. Whoever wit-it appeared that the hon. baronet, when nessed the debate of that day, and saw the he found that his conduct had been reeagerness with which every one of the hon. gent.'s friends wished to screen the delinquents, could not but allow this was a sufficient reason for his hon. friend's abandoning his motion. He was of opi-dressed himself to the admiralty, inclosing nion it would be more dignified and con- the documents. In consequence of which sistent, not to have these papers printed they were no longer in his possession, and till others connected with them could be that had been the cause of his moving for also produced. Every one was aware that the letter and its inclosures. As to the there was no man in the country above en- observation of the learned gent, that this quiry; but such was the character of lord was a fresh and distinct charge against the St. Vincent, that if the letter accused him, noble lord, was not there already upon the general and just opinion of mankind the table a charge against the hon. bawould be, that the imputation was unme-ronet? Was there no hardship in that?

flected on by the 11th report, had tendered to be re-examined, which the commissioners had, no doubt on sufficient grounds, refused. The hon. bart., had then ad

The papers were then read by the clerk, and are as follows:

A learned serjeant (Best) had given notice of a motion on the subject of the eleventh report next week, and in adverting to the charge of notices that had taken place, his right bon, friend had only said, that it was impossible for the house to know whether the motion would be made for a com-eleventh report of the Commissioners of mittee or not.

"Copy of a letter from the comptroller of the navy to the lords commissioners of the admiralty, dated the 22d of April 1805, on the subject of the evidence printed in the

Naval Enquiry:-together with copies of Mr. Grey felt it impossible to suffer the sundry papers therein referred to. Navy. house to be led away by false impressions. office, 22d April 1805.-My lords, having He was sure the statement from the other read the eleventh report of the commisside was not correct relative to the order of sioners of naval enquiry; and thinking the the motions (on Thursday). He had himself evidence given by the earl of St. Vincent as suggested to move for the committee first stated in the appendix to that report, was and for the prosecution after. But he obser- incorrect, and likely to lead the public into ved a uniform endeavour to mislead the an opinion prejudicial to my official chahouse, that they who supported him opposed racter, that I kept his lordship in ignothe production of documents. God forbid! It rance of material transactions in my office; was to the manner of moving for the docu-I was desirous of being again examined, ments they objected. He was happy to and for that purpose I wrote to the comfind that no gentleman attempted to jus-missioners the following letter on the 1st tify the manner in which the hon, bart. had April; "gentlemen, having read your elebrought forward his motion. The report venth report to the house of commons, had been printed on the 11th of March, and" and observing from the concluding part it was not till the 22d of April that the hon." of the appendix to that report, that the bart, wrote the letter to the admiralty; "earl St. Vincent declared before you, on the 25th he gave his notice, and on "that he had no knowledge of the transthe 26th he moved for its production." action therein alluded to, in respect to What was to be concluded; but that he" which, the sums of money therein men had written the letter for the purpose of" tioned were severally issued; I beg having it produced to parliament? "leave to be again examined before you

Sir A. S. Hamond said, he had lost" upon that subject, in order that the tes no time. It was extremely late in March" timony I propose to give, may be made when the report had been printed, and the" a supplementary report. I have in my next day he wrote to the commissioners" possession such proofs as will convince of enquiry. As he held a high office, it" that his lordship was acquainted with was no slight matter that he should stand" those transactions; these proofs in jusright with his superior board. He had" tice to myself, I desire that I may be written his letter on the 1st of April, and allowed to lay before you."—I attended delivered it with his own hand to the com- with the letter myself on the day it bears missioners. On the 17th he received the date, and having delivered it, I retired answer, and on the 22d he wrote to the into the next room to wait their pleasure admiralty. The documents were in the upon the subject of it; after waiting s regular form of documents from one board short time, I was informed that they would to another, and numbered from 1 to 10, send me an answer; and I received in con❤ being letters from the secretary of state, sequence, the following answer, dated the and from the earl St. Vincent, and if the 17th instant. "Sir, we have received your secretary of the admiralty did not produce" letter of the 1st instant, respecting the them with the proper titles, it was not his" evidence given by the earl of St. Vin fault. The reading the papers would not" cent, entered in the appendix to our take up ten minutes, he should therefore" eleventh report'; and proposing to us vote for the motion. "to re-examine the matters to which that Mr. Kinnaird should not have risen, if it" evidence relates. We have very lately had not been for a personal allusion to" had occasion to decline resuming an enhiinself. Previous to the motion which had" been observed upon, he bad presented a petition from Mr. Tucker explaining the nature of his grievance and the motion. VoL. IV.

quiry after having submitted our report upon the subject of it to the three bran ches of the legislature; and we do not any thing in the circumstances: commu® 2 H