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ation of the hon. baronet, it was rather extraordinary that the public should be asked to pay for them.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that as the baronetage was given that gentleman for his services in the army, it was therefore brought into the army extraordinaries, it being always usual, when that honour was conferred for services to pay the expences. As to the emigrants, this was a charge for such emigrants only as have served in our armies, and are paid abroad in order to save the expence of coming to this country. This was absolutely necessary, when foreigners, who had served us, had no other means of gaining a livelihood in this country, and the army extraordinaries were the most convenient head of service under which they could be classed.-The resolutions were then read, and severally agreed to.

[IRISH SILVER TOKENS BILL.]-On the question for going into a committee on the Irish Silver Tokens bill;

Mr. Magens requested the attention of the house while he made a few observations on this bill, which, he thought, would be as properly made in this as in any other stage of it. He observed, that in a conversation which passed in that house, some short time since, it appeared that the rate of exchange being so much against Ireland was in consequence of the very large quantity of paper that was in circulation in that part of the empire. These tokens, as they were called, were, in his opinion, very little, if at all, better than paper; and as they would be subject to great depreciation, he saw very little benefit to be derived from this measure. He thought the only way to serve Ireland effectually would be to restore a real silver coinage directly under the royal authority, and thereby to assimilate the coinages of the two countries as nearly as possible. For these reasons he could not approve the bill.

Mr. Princep said, he thought some limitation should be put to these tokens, and hoped a standard coinage would soon take place.

restored, every thing would be much cheaper, and the country would derive innume rable benefits from it.

Mr. Rose said, the silver tokens were tokens above the value of the price of dollars, and therefore he thought there was no fear of the apprehensions entertained by the hon. gent. who spoke last but one. It had been for a long time in contemplation to make a standard coinage, but there were certain obstacles to it which at present could not be removed.

Mr. Magens said, if the old standard were

Sir J. Newport said it was much to be wished that the old standard was restored, but that would require some considerable time; and, as a large quantity of paper had been lately taken out of circulation, it be came absolutely necessary something of this kind should be adopted. With respect to the assimilation of the coinage of the two countries, it was a subject that required great consideration, and therefore necessary this bill should pass as speedily as possible.

Mr. Lee said the hon. member who made the objection to this bill, most certainly was not acquainted with the situation of Ireland, or he would not argue as he had done. Silver notes, which were the only circulation for making payment of small sums, were now drawn out of circulation, and it was necessary something should be substituted in their stead, as there is now no cir culating medium for small payments. He was, however, one of those who did not think the quantity of paper that had been in circulation was injurious to Ireland; the fact had never been proved, and till it was so, he should differ from those who held that opinion.

Mr. Foster said very little remained for him to say on the subject. There was at present great distress in Ireland for want of small silver change, and as it is only to continue so long as the restriction of the bank from paying in specie continues, the hon. gent, who made this objection, need have no great apprehension. It will be extremely convenient to the people of Ireland, and he hoped therefore the bill would have the approbation of the house.

Mr. Johnstone said he doubted whether these pieces of silver would continue long in circulation, as, at 5s. 5d. each, people would find an advantage of eight and a half per cent. and would send them to this country to make their payments, and thereby save so much in the rate of exchange.

Mr. Foster said, these tokens are to issue at 5s. 5d. but will be ten per cent. under the value of Spanish dollars, and if you add eight and a quarter, the difference of exchange, it would be nearly 19 per cent, and when exchange is very high, it would be nearly 25 per cent.; when to these are added the inconvenience of carriage, and the wearing of the silver by friction, there would be thought very little danger of their being sent to this country.

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Mr. Vansittert said a few words in favour of the bill, and the house went into the committee, in which the clauses were read and agreed to-Adjourned.

to express our sense of the very obliging manner in which you have been pleased to convey the resolution of the house. We have the honour to be, sir, your most obedient, humble servants, Charles Morice Police, Ewan Law, Jahn Ford, Henry Nicholls, Wm. Mackworth Praed."-On the

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Monday, May 6.


[MINUTES. The bishop of Oxford pre-motion of Dr. Duigenan, the Irish First sented a petition from the freeholders of Ox- Fruits Bill was read a second time, and orfordshire, praying that the restraints upon the dered to be committed on Wednesday.catholics might not be repealed, which was Mr. Calcraft presented the Declaration of ordered to lie on the table.-Lord Mulgrave sir Francis Burdett, which was read by the - reminded their lordships that they stood clerk. It contained a statement of the summoned for to-morrow upon a notice progress of the poll at the late Middlesex which he gave before the recess, relative to election, and concluded with intimating the one of their standing orders, that which hon. baronet's intention not to defend his enabled any peer to move the house into a seat. [A copy of the declaration will be committee whenever he desired it. The found in p. 211 of this volume, where it more he had considered that order, the was inadvertently inserted.] That clause of more he was convinced it ought not to re- the act of parliament was then read, in main upon the books of the house; and he pursuance to the provisions of which the should therefore, to-morrow, move to ex-declaration was formed. After a few words punge it. Lord Mulgrave said that a noble from the secretary at war and Mr. H. friend of his, who had undertaken to bring Thornton, stating their disapprobation of a forward a clause to be added to the Univer- great deal of irrelevant matter in the declasity Advowson bill, had not yet been able to ration, the 7th of June was the day fixed complete it; and he, therefore, wished that for acting upon it. the further consideration of the bill might › be postponed till Wednesday. After a short conversation between the bishop of Oxford, the bishop of St. Asaph, the lord chancellor, and lord Mulgrave, the order for the committee sitting this day was discharged, and fixed for Wednesday-Adjourned.

[DISMISSAL OF LORD MELVILLE.]Mr. Whitbread rose, and observed, that whatever motives might, in the course of the business he had undertaken, have been imputed to him by the opposers of the mea. sure, he presumed there were none who would suppose he had not, during the whole course of the proceeding, been impressed with feelings of the greatest anxiety. He confessed that the feelings of anxiety he had felt, in different stages of the discussions that had taken place, were not to be com


Monday, May 6.

[MINUTES.]The Speaker acquainted the house, that he had received from the Commissioners of Naval Enquiry, the fol-pared with those which he now experienced. lowing letter, in return to the thanks of this He had now come to a point, and standing house of Thursday last." Office of Naval on which he trembled, not from any doubt Enquiry, Great George Street, 4th May 1805. of the propriety of the measure he should -Sir, We have had the honour to receive propose, but from his apprehensions as to your letter of the 3d of this month, trans- the course the house of commons would mitting to us a copy of the resolution of adopt. There were two paths open before the house of commons of the 2d instant. them. The one, as it appeared to him, It is most gratifying to us to learn, that our led by the ways of justice to the immortal conduct as Commissioners of Naval Enquiry honour and renown of the house of comhas been considered by the house as de-mons; the other, if they were led by misserving a vote of their approbation; a tes- taken clemency to pursue it, led to the distimony which is justl, esteemed one of the repute of the house of commons, and ~~ highest honours that can be conferred on eventually to the detriment of the public persons employed in the service of the interest. If it had been immediately propublic: we receive this mark of distinction posed, in consequence of the resolutions with the greatest respect and thankfulness; which he had the honour to submit on the and we request that you will have the 8th of April, that an address should have goodness to communicate to the house been presented to his majesty, praying that these our sentiments. We also beg leave lord Melville might be dismissed from all

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Mr. Whitbread said, he meant to have : concluded by moving, that his majesty's i answer should be taken into consideration. Whatever communication the right hon. gent. had to make, he thought it would come with more propriety after the motion. He apprehended that if he had made a motion on the morning after the night the resolutions were proposed and acquiesced in, that lord Melville should have been dismissed from his offices and his majesty's -councils and presence, that there would not >> have been one dissentient voice. He apprehended, that if lord Melville had not been a member of the house of peers, but merely of the house of commons, and he had moved for the dismissal of him as a member of the house of commons, that there would not have been a dissentient voice. In the conrse of this business he had shaped his conduct so as to obtain the suffrages and support of every independent member of parliament; and, in so doing, he conceived he had strictly conformed to his duty, and promoted the welfare of the

the places held by him under the crown, communication to make, had not only said and from the royal presence and councils, on a former day that his name was not struck for everoff the privy council book, but that he saw The Chancellor of the Exchequer inter- no reason for advising his majesty to erase rupted the hon. gent. for the purpose of it. Under these circumstances, a committee speaking to order. He really had understood had been appointed to examine further into that the hon. gent. had given notice of his the matters of the tenth report, as excluintention to move to take into consideration sively as could be of the conduct of lord his majesty's answer, and he conceived Melville, and a civil prosecution had been that he would have begun his observations ordered against his lordship and Mr. Trotwith reference to that object. He had a tcr. A right hon. gent. had proposed, that communication to make to the house, which it should be turned into a criminal prosecuhe thought would anticipate what the hon. tion. In this situation the country stood→→ gent. had to say; he therefore wished to that the house had decided that lord Melput it to his candour, whether he would ville, not accidentally or once, but during afford him an opportunity. the course of a long administration, had been guilty of a breach of his duty, and a gross violation of the law, and yet no punishment had been inflicted in consequence of this decision. He knew it had been contended that lord Melville had been punished, and appeals had been made to the house whether the punishment had not been sufficiently severe. He could not easily forget the impressive words of a right hon. gent, (the master of the rolls) over against him, or his feelings and countenance, compelling sympathy, when he asked whether lord Melville had not been sufficiently punished? He wished he could borrow a little of that right hon. gent.'s accuracy of expression to call upon the house to perform what, if it did not perform, he should contend lord Melville would not be punished. If humiliation; if voluntary degradation; if the resignation of high employments under the crown, such as lord Melville thought himself capable of filling; if the feelings of a man who had held great official situations for many years; if a broken and contrite heart, ka flammæ, hæ fusces

: public. The second day after the resolu--if these were to be considered a punishment, then it was possible lord Melville

tions passed, he had moved an address to his majesty, that lord Melville should be, might have been punished sufficiently. In removed from his councils and presence, that case, his punishment was as far superior and deprived of all offices held by him to any the house could inflict, as the hand under the crown. It appeared on that oc- that inflicted it was above the power of !casion to have been the sense of the house, mortals. It was the duty of the house to that it would be better the resolutions should take care that others were not betrayed into be carried to the foot of the throne; but the same errors, and that men in the situahe was of opinion the consequence of that ation of lord Melville should know, that if measure was not precisely what would have they acted as he had done they would subtaken place if the house had gone up with ject themselves to degradation. It was also the address. The consequences he had incumbent on the house to take care that hoped for had not taken place. He bad equal justice was done to all, and that when resigned his office at the admiralty, but his others were writhing under punishment, > name had not been struck out of the list of delinquents of greater magnitude were not the privy council. The right hon. gent. spared. The sensations of shame were who had just intimated that he had some not confined to men in high stations ;› but a

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common clerk, detected in a fraudulent act, ( majesty's privy counsellors, his majesty has felt equally with the highest peer: his feel- acceded to this advice, and that erasure will, ings, too, were accompanied with the loss of on the first day that a council is held, také character, and the loss of character was at- place. Having said thus much, I shall, with tended with the loss of bread. With re- the permission of the House, say a few gard to such a person, it was highly proba- words on the circumstances under which I ble, that even if the law was not followed formerly resisted this proposition, and those up, that his wife, children, relatives, and under which I have felt myself bound to dependants, would be reduced to a state of yield to it. The hon. gent. has thought misery. Such an accumulation of distress proper to allude to the discussion which was of itself punishment enough; but justice took place on the day previous to the reand the law must have their victim. He cess; and he says, that on that occasion, therefore, in the name of minor delinquents, I declared that nothing then appeared to in the name of the public, in the name of me which called for my advising his mathe representative body of England, and in jesty to erase the name of lord Melville the name of the former vote of the house, from the list of privy counsellors. I becalled for that which was but bare simple lieve, sir, it is in the recollection of the justice on lord Melville. He deprecated house, that a motion similar to that now the injury the character of the parliament brought forward, was produced by the hon. of 1805 would sustain, if, after the detec- gent. on the day to which he has alluded. tion of lord Melville's guilt, it should ap-On that occasion I did state that the motion pear that parliament had stopped in its pu- appeared to me altogether unnecessary, since nishment, and that he had been suffered to lord Melville had resigned his official situaremain a privy counsellor, particularly after tion, and all prospect or hope of his return the proofs against him had been so com- to office was extinct, as long as the resoluplete; when instead of any denial of the tions of the 8th of April remained in full charge by lord Melville, habemus confi- force. Unless the house varied their decitentem reum, he had given evidence against sion, that determination was an insuperable himself. He proceeded to infer the odium bar to the noble lord's return to power. it would cast on the ministers of the At that time it did not appear to me to be the day if it should appear they had endea- sense of the house that such a motion should voured to protect such a delinquent. He be persisted in, or that it was at all necessary highly censured that advice which had dic- after the resolutions of censure on a former tated the answer of his majesty to the evening. Many gentlemen who concurred sheriff of London, when they waited upon in those resolutions thought that the wound his majesty with the address of the common which had been inflicted should not be agcouncil. After a few further observations, gravated by any unnecessary circumstances he moved, that his majesty's answer should of severity; that when the justice of the be taken into consideration; observing, public was satisfied, the feelings of the indithat he meant afterwards to move an ad-vidual ought not to be outraged. Even dress to his majesty, praying him to order several gentlemen on the other side of the the name of lord Melville to be erased house did not seem to wish that the motion from the privy council, and to dismiss him should be pushed to a division. The mofrom his presence for ever. tion was accordingly withdrawn, and in the room of it the house agreed to lay the resolutions before the throne, and to await the ultimate decision of his majesty. By following this course, it was imagined that the same result would be obtained without wounding the feelings of the noble lord, who was already sufficiently afflicted by the general decision of the house. This step then

The Chancellor of the Exchequer-Before, sir, the motion is put from the chair, I think it necessary for me to make a very few observations, which appear to me of such a nature as will supersede the necessity of agitating the question at greater length, on the present occasion. When I interrupted the hon. gent. it was for the purpose of saying, that I had a communication to make being taken, it did not strike me that it was to the house, which might probably render at all expected that it was my duty especially his motion unnecessary; that communica- to advise his majesty to erase the name of tion is, sir, that the object which the hon. lord Melville from the list of his privy coungent. has in view, is already accomplished. sellors. If I had conceived this to be the I have felt it my duty to advise the erasure general wish of the house, I should, un

of lord Melville's name from the list of his questionably, have bowed to it, but nos

viewing the matter in this light, I did not conceive that I was bound to give the advice which the motion of the hon. gent. is calculated to enforce. Since that time, however, in consequence of the notice of the hon. gent. to renew his motion, I have felt it my duty to ascertain what is the prevailing feeling of gentlemen on the subject. I have had occasion to ascertain the sentiments of respectable gentlemen on both sides of the house, and seeing reason to believe that the step to which the motion of the hon. gent. is directed, was considered expedient, I have, however reluctantly from private feeling, felt it incumbent on me to propose the erasure of the noble lord's name from the list of privy counsellors. I confess, sir, and I am not ashamed to so materially? But he says, that he has confess it, that whatever may be my defer- canvassed the opinions of several individual ence to the house of commons, and how-members. Sir, there seems to be strong ever anxious I may be to accede to their grounds to suppose that this is a compro wishes, I certainly felt a deep and bitter mise adopted in consequence of a ministerial pang in being compelled to be the instru- intrigue, rather than an act implying any ment of rendering still more severe the deference to the opinions of this house. punishment of the noble lord. This is a I do not know that however. I am only in feeling of which I am not ashamed. It is a possession of what the public in general feeling which I cannot drive from my bo- know on the subject.-Now, sir, one word as som. It is a feeling which nothing but my to the time. The right hon. gent. takes the conviction of the opinion of parliament, last moment for giving this advice, in order, and my sense of public duty could possibly as far as possible, to divert the censure of have overcome. After what I have said, this house from lord Melville. Notice was I trust the hon. gent. will see the propriety given of the proposition, the very first day, of withdrawing his motion. Every public believe, that the business came before the object is now obtained which the motion house. Allusions to it had been made in could accomplish, and I am sure the hón. subsequent proceedings; but it is not till gent. has candour and humanity enough within half an hour of its being brought not to press a discussion, the only effect of forward, that the right hon. gent. comes which must be to wound the already severe-down and makes this communication, from ly afflicted feelings of an unfortunate individual.


official notice to his majesty of the proceed ings of the house. So it was; but why was it thought proper to give such a notice? Surely, sir, for the purpose that ministers might take such measures, as they might not be so strictly bound to take, if the notice had not been given. This, sir, was understood, and strongly urged at the time. But if the right hon. gent. then understood the sense of the house in such a manner that he did not think it his duty to advise the erasing of lord Melville's name from the list of privy counsellors, how comes it that he has now given that advice? How has he since col lected the general opinion of the house in a way to induce him to alter his sentiments

Mr. Fox-Since the right hon. gent. has told us that at last he has condescended to advise his majesty to remove lord Melville frem his privy council, I would wish to know whether that has been done in consequence of the resolutions of the house of commons? At all events, sir, we have reason to rejoice in the triumph which justice has experienced, when we consider that they were compelled at length to give this advice who were for protecting lord Melville, because he was an old and faithful servant it, he is erased from the privy council. of the crown," and had only acted contrary The difference between its being done now to the intention of the act of parliament! and done before is, I acknowledge, as far as Why was this advice not given immediately the public are concerned, not very material; after the address of the 10th of April, for but it will be recollected, that the right hon. which the right hon. gent. expresses such gent. held out till he could hold out no profound veneration? He comments upon longer without a certainty of being beat. this address, and considers it merely as an I trust, however, that things will now

the well founded terror, that if he permitted the question to go to a division, he would be left in a minority. But is it now precisely the same thing as if it had been done long before? Does it not shew clearly, that every thing within the compass of possibility is to be done in favour of lord Melville? First, it was maintained that he only acted contrary to the intention of the law: then he was permitted to resign his office of first lord of the admiralty, to prevent his being turned out. And now at last, when nothing can be done to prevent

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