to do so, by declaring that the noble and situation to another. They differed indeed gallant earl had disgraced the British navy, in their opinions, on the best means of and was the greatest enemy to the country naval administration; but he should not have that the country ever knew. If the hon. thought that a reason why he should so abangent. said all this from his own suggestion, don him in every other respect. A fair and it was a pity that he was not a lord of the manly hostility to the noble earl, like that of admiralty, by which he might have obtained the unconnected individual, would, in his greater information than he probably now opinion, be more becoming in the right hon. possessed. The lights, however, which he gent. than the grant of papers, professing to professed to have obtained, and the decisive brand the noble earl in the manner expressline of conduct he had adopted, were rathered by his present adversary. This was not strange in an independent country gentle-a charge that respected any particular exman, professing himself to be unconnected pedition, or partial failure, but a broad acwith any party. It was equally strange too, cusation, which ought either to be sifted to that no attack whatever had been made the bottom, or all documents be refused against earl St. Vincent until he adopted upon it. When the hon. accuser seemed to measures which tended to attack others. doubt whether these papers might in the reThe proceedings of this day were certainly suit, tend to an enquiry, he must have had a good warning to any man to be very care- a most extravagant opinion of his own mofal how he ventured to attack abuses. If tion, to think it would be sufficient of itself the hon. gent. had indeed been a party man, for condemnation. For his own part, he instead of an unconnected gentleman, as he was of a very different opinion, and wished, described himself, he might have been sus- in conclusion, distinctly to state on the part pected of having taken a very dexterous way of earl St. Vincent, that all his lordship to divert the attention of the house from looked for was a full and fair enquiry. the other enquiries already going forward; The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he but he could not consider it altogether fair in did not see why the right hon. gent. should this unconnected man to assert that he could rest his observations particularly on him, as prove earl St. Vincent to have disgraced the he, no more than any other member, could navy, and have been an enemy to his coun-judge whether the papers might endure an try. After he had heard the minister himself object to some of those papers which might turn out to be the most necessary for the noble earl's defence; let the fair and full enquiry be granted; and if any of the papers required should appear of too deli-which led him, as he stated before, to object cate a nature to be made public, let the en- to two of them, as inconsistent with the quiry be a secret one. At the present mo- public safety; but, he could not foresee the ment, indeed, the friends of the earl St. effect of the remainder. If the house exVincent did not appear to be very numerous amined the speech of the right hon. gent. in that house; nor were they much want- (Mr. Tierney), they would observe it to ing to a man who might safely rest his cha-consist of alternate sentences: the one tendracter on the sentiments of a grateful and ing to court, and the other to suppress ens affectionate people. Whatever that uncon-quiry. As to what had been alluded to of pronected gentleman might think himself, he tection, he had only to say, that he should fancied he would not find it an easy task to be always ready to protect earl St. Vincent, convince the people of England that the earl or any other man, against injustice. The St. Vincent was the enemy of his country. remembrance he had of the great profes He thought he had a right to expect, that sional services of the noble carl would be the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt) himself would a sufficient restraint against any hostility on have given some favourable opinion of at his part towards him; but, he had long since least the professional merits of the noble earl, expressed his opinion of his conduct in the adwhen he heard his character arraigned in miralty, and he had not yet seen any reason such a manner, by this unconnected indivi- to retract it. The past prefessional merits dual. When he heard so illustrious a cha-of the noble earl, however great, were not racter reviled, without any appeal to former sufficient grounds to defend the faults in his friendship, to extend towards it the protec-administration. For his own part, he detion of his own opinion, was no more than clared that he had no wish for, nor did he what was due from, one great man in a high intend to submit, any enquiry into the con enquiry, until he could examine the nature of them all. When this motion was first noticed, it seemed to be the general wish, on all sides, that the papers should be granted, and he alone wished for a delay, duct of the noble earl; but, when that en- | the consideration of his official conduct. The quiry was challenged by his friends, he accounts should comprise the administration should not be doing his duty either to him- of lord Chatham, when the navy was placed self or to the country, were he to take any in the condition which laid the foundation measures to suppress it. of its future glory; and even the admini stration of lord Sandwich, when it had re Mr. Jeffery declared that his conduct did not spring from any party connection, but,ceived a great addition. He thought the from the impulse of the moment. He had no communication on the subject of his motions with the minister, or any other person; and, when the right hon. gent. (Mr. Tierney) asked him this day in private whether they were to be carried, he candidly answered him that he did not know. motion could not be considered as hostile to, earl St. Vincent, but rather as directed ta obtain information highly material to the public interest. He condemned the contemptuous language with which a right hon. gent. (Mr.Tierney) had spoken of individuals connected with no party. He was jealous Mr. Grey reprobated, in the most forcible on this point, as he was aware he himself language, the mode in which this subject would be frequently classed with this des was brought forward. An hon. member cription of members. If it appeared that moved for the production of a number of the ships were not so numerous in lord St. papers, which he said possibly might Vincent's administration as those before it, not authorise enquiry, and yet in the in- and that the short and feverish peace we had troduction to his motion he made use of enjoyed was not employed to prepare for a the strongest language which could be ap- war that must have been easily foreseen, it plied to any case, even after a charge of was fit the blame should be cast where it improper conduct was established upon proof ought to be; he alluded also to the misbefore the house. All that he could under- chief of interfering with the authority of stand by the expression of his right hon. captains of ships, as the depreciation of the friend (Mr. Tierney), by the word "pro- respect paid to them might lead to the alarmtection" was, that it meant to signify fair- ing state of things in the navy which every ness, though in fact, he was sorry the word one remembered with so much pain. He had been used at all. The fairness he then pronounced the highest panegyricon, claimed on the part of the earl St. Vincent the virtues, talents, and other excellent was, that whatever objections there might qualifications of lord Barham, the present be in point of convenience, all the papers first lord of the admirality. It was, he unshould be produced, which might be ne-derstood, the fashion of some gentlemen, to cessary for the enquiry. The hon. gent. represent his great qualities as chilled by the (Mr. Jeffery) seemed surprised, that any gentleman should oppose the papers, without knowing what they were; but he forgot, that when the papers should be produced, it would be too late to oppose them. He acted, in this respect, like the judge, who was reported to have told a barrister from the bench-"I will not allow you to open your mouth, until you tell me what you have to say." As to the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt), he must do him the justice to say, that he acted consistently, and he had uniformly expressed himself hostile to the naval administration of the earl St. Vincent. Mr. Tierney explained. He said, what he meant by protection was, that ministers should not, at this late period of the session, suffer such motions to be brought forward, and had no reference in his observation to the particular friends of the noble earl. Mr. Wilberforce agreed with the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer, that the gratitude due to earl St. Vincent's professional character, should not be a bar to influence of years; but from the opportunities he had of judging, he must declare him to be, in his opinion, the man of all others, the best qualified for his situation. Mr. Pytches here called the hon. gent. to order: thinking such high panegyrics on the ̈ new first lord of the admiralty, were by no means relevant to the present motion. Mr. Wilberforce thought himself perfectly in order, when it was considered that lord. Barham was comptroller of the navy under two of the administrations to which these motions referred. Mr. Curwen thought, that after earl St. Vincent had been acquitted of all charges in the last session, when the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt) moved for papers to criminate. him, it would, at least, have been decent to abstain from any harsh expression towards him, until the papers now moved for should be properly examined. The language used by the hon mover appeared to him much too strong to be lightly applied to so good and exalted a character; and he thought the .1 panegyric on Lord Barham the more un-noble earl, who wanted no other protection necessary in this debate, as not a single reflexion had been cast upon him. He made no doubt, but when the enquiry should be made, the noble earl would appear in as exalted a sphere of character as he had always done before; and, until the trial, he conceived that great character entitled to every degree of approbation. but what he could hope to derive from the justice of his country. The gentlemen opposite him would never think on such a subject to content themselves only with such papers as might be sufficient for a vote of one night; for, if the enquiry respecting lord Melville required to be referred to a committee, though comparatively it lay in a Mr. Bastard was of opinion, that the en-nut-shell, how much more necessary would quiry, which ought rather now to extend it be on a subject which embraced the conitself to the dominion of the sea, ought duct of a whole administration? He must not to be confined to the limits of earl St. once more observe, that all he should reVincent's administration. Instead of party quire was, that the case should be fairly, motions of this kind, it would more become fully, equally, and impartially tried. This the house to enquire into the disorders in he was peculiarly anxious, for, because, as he the West Indies, and the circumstance of loved his country much more dearly than the dominion of the sea being now in the he did earl St. Vincent, he considered a just hands of the French, who dared not shew and full enquiry to be the best means of setheir faces on the ocean during the admini-curing it. If a committee should be appointstration of the gallant earl St. Vincent. ed on it, he wished it to consist not of party During that vigourous and active admini-men, as on the late occasion, but of proper stration, the French could presume to shew people (order! order !)-He did not mean themselves only to be defeated, and how to say that any set of gentlemen would be shameful was now the reverse, when the British actually partial. squadrons were obliged to fly before them. The hon. gentleman concluded with observing that the great object of our enquiry should at present be, by what means we might be able again to put ourselves into the same situation in which earl St. Vincent had left us? Mr. R. Ward said, he must absolutely and distinctly deny that the enemy were now in possession of the dominion of the sea, or were able to cope with our fleets in any part of the world. Admiral Markham said, if the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt) already objected to two of the motions while he was willing to grant the remainder, it must also follow, that he should have to object to many others which he should think it right to submit respecting the supply of foreign timber, which would be so necessary to the earl St. Vincent's justification, though he should be sorry, on any other account, to propose the disclosure of any thing which might be supposed embarrassing to government. When the same right hon. gent, last year moved for an account of the foreign timber imported, he objected to it as a disclosure which he thought at that time improper, but being how out of office, he was not capable of judging whether a similar communication would not be equally injurious at the present time. All he should think of asking for would be such papers as were barely necessary for the vindication of the VOL. IV. The Chancellor of the Exchequer here in terrupted the hon. admiral, as being disor derly in anticipating what sort of committee the papers might be referred to, before they were produced. The Speaker said, that in fairness he must acquit the hon. admiral of being more out of order, in that instance, than others who preceded him; but, he must at the same time inform the hon. admiral, that it was highly disrespectful to speak of committees appointed by the house, as if they were the nomination of any individual. Admiral Markham, after apologising, went on to proceed in nearly the same ways when he was again called to order by Mr. Dent. The hon. admiral said, he did not : conceive himself irregular in adverting to what he neant to be the objects of his own motions; when, the Speaker said, he must now imperatively interfere, and acquaint the hon. member, that he was not at liberty to pass by the subject of discussion, or refer to his own motions, till the present was disposed of. After some further conversation, the motion was agreed to. Mr. Jeffery then moved a long string of motions, for "the number of line-of-battle ships and frigates in commission, in 1793, distinguishing their rates, &c. ditto, in 1794, and from thence to the 18th of February, 1801-2-3-4, and 5, distinguishing their rates, and whether in the king's or mer chants' docks; also the ships of the same 3 B description out of commission; the numbers building during these periods; when launched, or likely to be launched; ships laid down, and meant to be built; the timber in store; the quality of the articles, &c.; all of which were agreed to. Mr. Dent then, in pursuance of a former notice, in order to probe things to the bot tom, and draw a comparison between the administration of earl Spencer and the earl St. Vincent, moved, "that there be laid be fore the house, a list of all persons raised to the rank of lieutenants in the navy, from lieutenants to captains and commanders, and from captains and commanders to post captains, from the 1st of Jan. 1795, to the 1st of Jan. 1804." He said, that if the papers were agreed to, he should follow them up with a specific motion. Admiral Markham thought it invidious to draw this comparison, as he, together with all the friends of earl St. Vincent, had ever spoken and thought in the highest manner of the purity and zeal of earl Spencer's, administration, The Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed an amendment, for bringing the account to the latest period, which would include the administration of viscount Melville. Sir J. Sinclair renewed his former objection to the multiplication of enquiries at this late period of the session.. Mr. Kinnaird said, that, to do away the invidious distinction between the administration of earls Spencer and St. Vincent, he should propose as an amendment to the notion, that it should begin at the year 1793, instead of 1795, which would include also the administration of the earl of Chatham. Admiral Markham said, that, as the object was to shew that earl St. Vincent employed a greater number of officers than any of his predecessors, it would be right to shew the reason of the promotions which were made at the end of the late war, for the reward of naval services, and to amend the motion, by going back to a comparative estimate with the promotions made under the administration of earl Sandwich, at the close of the American war. However, as he did not wish to crowd the table of the house with too many papers, he should not persist in the amendment. The amended motion was then agreed to, commencing with the year 1793. [CORN REGULATION BILL.] Lord. Hamilton called the attention of the house to the numerous petitions against the corn law of the last session. He argued that the great advance in the price of grain since the introduction of that measure into the house, was in a great degree attributable to it. He complained particularly that Irish grain, when warehoused here, might be exported as foreign, and he believed that much of this Irish grain had in this manner found its way to enemies ports. He concluded with moving that a committee be appointed to enquire into the matter of the petitions, Colonel Stanley represented the extent the complaints against the bill, in the manu facturing parts of Lancashire. The Secretary at War observed, that the petitioners acted upon misapprehension or misrepresentation, as, in fact, the bill never came into operation. As to the injurious effect upon Scotland, it was to be ascribed to the alteration in the usual average, proposed by the noble lord himself, and to obviate which, he was now suing for redress. Mr. Coke (of Norfolk) was against the bill going into a committee, or any further discussion being had upon it. It had produced the most beneficial effects already, by encouraging the importation of wheat, which now throughout England kept down the price of the markets. Mr. Western was against all discussion of the subject, now when corn was every where falling in price, on account of the great quantities imported, from the cou templation of what might have been the effects of the late act. Its provisions bad not yet taken effect; and the ports had never been shift by it, as the prices were not low enough to produce that consequence, Even in Scotland, as well as Ireland, the surplus produce was, this year, so great, that large quantities of wheat were imported from these countries into England. Even in Lanarkshire, the petitions from which were so much rested upon, the average prices were lower than on the corn exchange in London'; and, he believed, upon the whole, lower than the average prices of England, When the bill was passed the price of com was 10s. a quarter: dearer than it was now throughout the country. It was a great object to throw off the dependance, which Great Britain heretofore was under, for its supplies to foreign countries, which in the present state of Europe, might, without any strain of probability, be, in a short time, converted into enemies. The effect of the continuance of this act would be, that the man who employed his capital in agricul tures might safely conclude in deriving a adequate profit from it, and in this manner 753 01 be put upon a fair footing with the manufacturer. if any gentleman would take the trouble of enquiring, he would find that it was the frost which came on in June. He thought it, however, desirable that the house should go into a committee.) Sir Robert Peele argued, that the manufacturing interest should be supported against foreign competition, by supplying the necessities of workmen at a reasonable rate. A temporary depression of the farmer's promittee, and thought that, as the people had fits ought not to be made the cause of a per- doubts; it was necessary that an investigamanent burthen on the consumer. tion should take place. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he approved of the general principle of the act of last year, and was convinced that it had no share in the high price of grain, which was solely to be attributed to the deficiency of the crops throughout the country. It did much good from the encouragement it gave to importation, and he contended it to be impossible, that the interest of the agriculturist and manufacturer should ever be at variance with each other. If the house was once to discourage the grower for the present interest of the consumer, it must follow that the latter must ever afterwards be a sufferer by it; and, at times, subjected to such aggravated prices as would be most severely and intolerably felt. He deprecated any farther discussion on the subject at present, but did not object to the committee, as he thought it the most effectual mode, in its report, of counteracting all erroneous opinions with regard to it. Mr. Foster stated, that he had supported this bill when brought forward last session, and saw no reason why it should now be altered or repealed. No corn had been ex ported from Great Britain in consequence of it, nor had it prevented any from being imported; it had done no harm; and he, therefore, did not wish any investigation to take place. Mr. Macdowall observed on the average prices, which, he said, were against Scotland, and thought, if the committee, in this instance, was refused, a bill should be brought in specifically to regulate them. Mr. Francis maintained that when the bill passed, the price of bread was not more than eightpence or ninepence the quartern loaf, and, in about a month after, it rose to about sixteen of seventeen pence, for no other reason but because the bill was in force. He would, therefore, give his assent to the motion. Mr. H. Lascelles thought it better to go into the committee, and if it should be found that the bill had no effect, it might easily be altered. Mr. W. Smith did not think the bill was the cause of the rise of bread, and was sure, Mr. Barham spöke in favour of the com Sir C. Price thought the interference of parliament in these matters had a bad effect on the market. Sir J. Newport opposed the motion for a committee, as he thought, whenever this subject was discussed, speculations took place, which were injurious, and, no doubt, would be enlarged, if the present motion were carried. Sir W. Curtis and Alderman Coombe thought the average too high, and agreed that the house should go into a com mittee. Lord Archibald Hamilton concluded the debate with asserting his design to be not to alter the bill if it were advan-, tageous, but only to permit the committee to enquire into its merits; so much he considered to be due to the petitioners and to the country. The house then divided :— Ayes 63; Noes 40. Majority for the com mittee 23.-Adjourned. HOUSE OF LORDS. Monday, May 13. [ROMAN CATHOLIC PETITION.] The order of the day having been read for resum ing the adjourned debate on the Roman Ca❤ tholic Petition, The Earl of Suffolk rose. The emanci pation of the Irish Roman catholics was a measure, his lordship was of opinion, which must sooner or later be adopted, and therefore he wished their lordships at once generously and nobly to grant the prayer of the petition. Objections had been made to this as a proper time for such a measure; but no time, his lordship contended, could be more proper than the present. It was indeed a critical time, a time when they knew not how soon the enemy might land on their shores; but it was only for that reason the more necessary that the whole strength and population of the empire should be united, and no means could be more effectual for this purpose, he thought, than to conciliate the Roman catholics of Ireland by a just, à wise, and moderate policy. The conces sions that had already been made them, it had been argued, had only been productive of evil, and had led to the present high de |