thereof, is required or authorized to follow the directions of the lords commissioners of the treasury? A. None that I know of.-Q. Do the orders given by the treasury to the navy board for the payment of money, specify the particular sums to be paid, and the services for which the payments are to be made? A. The services are always specified; sometimes the rate, and sometimes the sum. [Signed by R. A. Nelson, and by the Commissoners. adopted from the suggestion of your officers. forests; payments for ships detained before But before that period, it was the invaria-a declaration of war; and references for ble practice of this office not to include both reports upon expenses in naval affairs.the first and last days in the calculation of Q. Is it usual for the havy board to comthe interest; and upon referring to the municate such directions to the admiralty? present act of parliament, it expressly 4. No.-Q. Did the admiralty, during enacts, that the interest shall commence the late war, direct the navy board to fur"from" (not on) the dates of the bills.- nish them with copies of such orders as they We beg leave to add, that in the formation might receive from the treasury? A. No. of the plan we have thus pursued, we were-Q. Are there any regulations by which not conscious of differing from the practice the navy board, or any particular member of other departments, nor had we any other object in view than a desire of acting correctly. We are, gent. your most humble servants, G. Cherry, G. P. Towry, F. Stephens, R. S. Moody, J. Hunt, W. Boscawen. No. XIV. The Examination of Richard A. Nelson, Esq. Secretary to the Navy Board; taken upon Oath, the 8th Nov. 1804. | Q. Was the report of the lords commissioners of the admiralty, respecting the arrangement of the navy board into committees, and the duties of its several members, upon which the order of his Majesty in council, dated the 8th of June, 1796, was grounded, or a copy thereof transmitted to the navy board with the admiraity order of the 17th Aug. 1796? A. It was not. Q. Has that report, or a copy thereof, been since transmitted to the navy board? A. It has not.-Q. Have any and what regulations been established since that period, for regulating the official duties of the navy board, or any particular member thereof? A. None.-Q. It not being specified in the regulations of the admiralty of the 17th August, 1796, under what authority the comptroller was to perform the secret services therein alluded to, under what authority did the navy board understand the comptroller was to perform such services? A. The comptroller is authorized by the order of 17th August, 1796, to execute secret services; and for any secret services which he has hitherto performed, and which have afterwards been laid before the board, he has produced the orders of the first lord - of the admiralty.-Q. Is the navy board in the practice of following the directions of the lords commissioners of the treasury? A. Yes, in many instances.-Q. How long has this practice prevailed? A. It has - always been the practice since I have been in the office; on looking over the books I - have scen old orders from the treasury ad-dressed to the navy board.-Q. Upon what subjects are such directions usually given? A Head money is the principal; payment for timber felled in the King's The further Examination of Richard Alexander Nelson, Esq. Secretary to the Navy Board; taken upon Oath, the 12th Jan. 1805.-Q. It appears that on the 12th Dec, 1801, a minute of the committee of accounts was laid before the navy board, proposing an alteration in the mode of paying the ninety-day bills, which was adopted by that board on the 18th of that month, and ordered to take effect on the following day; was any general notice given to persons holding contracts, under the navy board, and their consent thereto required previous to carrying into execution the resolution of the board above-mentioned? A. I do not recollect that there was.-Q. Have any remonstrances or complaints been made by the contractors to the board, in consequence of this alteration? 4. None that I remember.Q. Is there any minute on the proceedings of the navy board, shewing, previous to the resolution above-mentioned, an intention of altering their mode of computing the time when the ninety-day bills became payable, either at the approach of peace or any other period? 4. None that I know of.Q. Do you know of any enquiry having been made, by order of the navy board, into the mode of computing the time of paying bilis of exchange, or exchequer bills, in consequence of the representation made to them by the commissioners of victualling, in their letter of February 1797, or of any enquiry made by the navy board at any other time upon the subject? A. I do not know whether any inquiry has or has not been made, but no public enquiry has taken place 1 by examination before the board. [Signed as before.] usage of the office, and make an alteration in the computation of the time the ninetyday bills are made out to run, in conformity with the victualling office and the custom of merchants in discounting bills.-18th December 1801. The whole of the preceding circumstances being this day taken into consideration, the board determined, that the ninety-day bills to be issued in future, should not bear any interest for the day on which they are dated, agreeable to what is the practice with regard to exchequer bills, and bills made out at the victualling office. To commence on the 19th inst.-Board. No. XVI. Navy Office, 22d August, 1804.-Gentlemen, We have received your letter of the 1st instant, desiring to be informed what induced us to continue the practice of including the day of the date in No. XV. Committee of Accounts, 12th Dec. 1801.-Doubts having been suggested of the propriety of the mode in which the ninety-day bills issued from this office are made out, as to the expression of the time for which interest is to be paid on them, the committee, after investigating the business, find that the mode of computation used in this office was adopted in conformity to the custom which had constantly prevailed, and still prevails on all occasions dependent on length of time and number of days, and among the rest in computing the interest on every navy bill paid since their first establishment, to include in the computation the day on which the bill is issued as well as that on which it is paid, and this mode of computing the interest being that to which the contract-reckoning the interest of ninety-day bills, ors with this office had been accustomed, it was considered as only keeping faith with them to continue the calculation of interest on the same footing; and the chief clerk at the time, and the late Mr. Davies (the preceding chief clerk) deeming it to be in conformity not only to the ancient practice of the office on all occasions, but also to the present act, which directs such interest to commence from the dates of the bills (they, according to official interpretation, conceiving the word "from" to mean inclusively, as in the computation of all broken time, whether for the payment of pension, salary, day-pay, interest, &c.) it has always been, and now is, the invariable practice to include under the e:ression of "from such a time to such a time," both the day on which the salary, pension, day-pay, interest, &c. commenced, as well as that on which it terminated. The ninety-day bills issued by the victualling office are made out differently (though on the inspection of salary bills made out by that office, it appears that in their computation of broken time from such a day to such a day, they included both the first and the last day, construing the word "from" to be inclusive) in the ninetyday bills the first day is thrown out in the computation, by which means, a bill drawn by that office falls due one day later than one drawn on the same day by the navy office; but it may be considered whether this day's interest is really any saving to the public, as it may be presumed that the contractors reckon upon it accordingly.-Under these circumstances, the committee refer to the board's consideration, whether it may be proper at this time to depart from the ancient 3 until the 19th of December 1801, and what afterwards led to our adopting the practice of the commissioners of the victualling, pointed out in their letter of the 8th February 1797; and we request to inform you, that we did not, upon receiving the letter from the commissioners of the victualling, in answer to the one we had addressed to them on the subject, see sufficient reason from what was urged by them, for altering a mode of computation which had constantly prevailed in this office since the first establishinent of navy interest bills, of including the day on which the bill is dated, as well as that on which it is paid; a mode of computation which extends to all payments for salary, pension, full or half pay, and for all other allowances issued from this department— In whatever light the consideration may have been held, in respect to, whether a bill be paid one day sooner or later (the sum paid for the interest being the same in one case as in the other) it was of course calculated upon by the contractors when they made their contracts, and we could not deviate from it while the contracts were pending, without subjecting ourselves to the imputation of having departed from the universally understood mode of rendering payments at this office; but when the time arrived, at the conclusion of the late war, that many contracts were put up, and many more were intended to be so, we thought it a good opportunity for altering the day of paying the ninety-day bills, in order that an uniformity in this respect might pervade the different public boards where bills of a similar`description were issued:-We have the” honour to be, &c. W: Palmer; 8. Gam bier. F. I. Hartwell. Com. of Naval Enquiry.] [Addressed to the information of the lords commissioners of his majesty's treasury.-We are, &c. &c. Rupt. George, Ambrose Serle, Thos. Hamilton, E. Bouverie. [Addressed to the Commrs. of Naval Inquiry.] 26 Dec. 31 Dec. 1796 1 Jan. 31 Amount. No. XVII. Navy Office, 20th Nov. 1804. Gentlemen.-You having by your precept of the 1st instant, required that there be laid before you an account, shewing what stand- No. XIX. Navy Office, 16th Oct. 1804. ing contracts with the navy board had deter-An account, shewing the amount of the mined between 1st October and 19th De-ninety-day bills issued from this office in cember 1801, and an account of the stand-each year, during the time interest was aling contracts in force at the latter date, and lowed both on the day of the date of the which continued so for twelve months after- bills, and the day of payment. wards; also, a copy of the minutes or direc- Commencing. Ending. tions for altering the practice of including the day of the date in reckoning the interest on ninety-day bills :-We acquaint you, that the contract for tin machines of 6th November, for Portsmouth and Plymouth, and the contract for leather liquored for Portsmouth, are the only standing contracts that determined between 1st October and 19th December 1801. We inclose an account of the contracts in force at the latter date, with a copy of the minute required; and have the honour to be,-gentlemen, &c. W. Palmer. S. Gambier. F. L. Hartwell.-Addressed to the com. of naval inquiry.] Here follows a detailed account of the contracts.] 1 31 1 31 1 31 1 19 90,534 14 11 1797 3,537,291 8 8 1798 2,611,926 17 2 1799 3,019,555 2 7 1800 4,661,788 2 2 1801 5,826,739 6 5 Total 19,747,835 11 11 No. XX. Transport Office, 12th Oct. 1804.-An account of the amount of the bills payable at ninety days date, issued in each year, upon which the interest of the day of the date, and the day of payment, was included. 1797 1798 1799 1801 1,507,419 14 10 No. XVIII. Transport Office, 12th Oct. 1804.-Gentlemen, in return to your precept of the 5th instant, requiring an account of the amount of the bills of this office, payable at ninety days, issued in each year, upon which the interest of the day of the date, and the day of payment was included; and a statement of the circumstances which led to the adoption and discontinuance of that No. XXI. Treasury Chambers, 1st May, mode of calculating the interest; we enclose 1804.-Gentlemen,-The sum of ninetyto you the said account, and have to ac-five thousand pounds having been imprested quaint you, that the persons to whom pay-to for naval services, and the ments were made by ninety-day bills, were, lords commissioners of his majesty's treain strictness, entitled to their money upon sury being satisfied that disbursements for the completion of the several services per- those services have been made by them to formed; but an interval of several days that amount;-I am commanded by their having almost invariably occurred while lordships to direct you to cause a clearing their accounts have been under investiga- bill for the said sum of ninety-five thousand tion, and the bills were preparing; it was pounds to be made out, to discharge upon this ground, and upon the construction in the books of your office from that imwe entertained of the intention of the act of prest.-I am, &c. N. Vansittart. [Addressed parliament, that the interest was allowed by to the Comrs. of the Navy.] us both for the day on which the bills were No. XXII. The Examination of the Rt. Hon. dated, and that on which they became pay- the Earl Spencer, K. G.; taken upon oath, able. This mode has, however, been al- the 6th Nov. 1804.-Q. It appears, that be tered ever since the month of December, tween the 4th October 1799, and the 9th .1801, from which time the interest has not April 1801, navy bills, amounting to one commenced till the following day, under-hundred thousand pounds, were issued by standing the like alteration was to be made by the commissioners of the navy, with whose office list our daily accounts of bills issued are constantly incorporated, for the VOL. IV.Appendix. the imprest cleared and taken off by an order from the right honourable the lords commissioners of his majesty's treasury, seventy thousand pounds of which sum were advanced between the 4th October and 22d November 1799, during which period your lordship presided at the board of admiralty; was any part of this transaction known to your lordship? A. I apprehend the transaction was known to me at the time; but I have not now a sufficient recollection to speak precisely on the subject. [Signed by Earl Spencer and by the Commissioners.] General of the Land and other Taxes in Scotland, in relation to the Debt stated to be due from him, in the 8th Report of the Select Committee of Financé, so far as relates to the Proposals therein mentioned.— The Proposals made by Mr. Fordyce to the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, are recapitulated in a letter of the 10th June 1798, printed by order in the Report of the Select Committee of Finance for 1797, Appendix (E.); a copy of which is annexed, No. 1. Return to an Order of the House of Commons, made on the 22d of March last; for Copies of Proposals which have been made, No. XXII. The Examination of the Rt. and a Statement of Securities given to the Hon. the Earl of St. Vincent, K. B.; taken Lords Commissioners of his Majesty's Treaupon oath, the 2d of Nov. 1804.-Q. It ap-sury, by John Fordyce, Esq. late Receiver pears that between the 4th October 1799 and 9th April 1801, navy bills, amounting to one hundred thousand pounds, were issued by the navy board to for naval services, of which five thousand pounds have been repaid to the treasurer of the navy on the 9th October 1802, and the remainder of the imprest cleared and taken off by an order from the lords commissioners of his majesty's treasury, thirty thousand pounds of which sum were advanced on the 9th April, 1801, at which time your lordship presided at the board of admiralty; was any part of this transaction known to you? A. None whatever,-Q. It appearing that the sum of fourteen thousand pounds was advanced by the navy board to Messrs. T. Hammersley and company, between the 18th of February and 21st of April, 1804, for a secret service; was the comptroller of the navy authorised by you to perform any secret service for which this money was advanced, or had you any knowledge of the transaction? 4. He was not; nor have I any knowledge of the transaction.[Signed by Earl St. Vincent and by the Commissioners.] Return to the above Order, so far as relates to the Securities therein mentioned.— We have to state, that, to the best of our knowledge, the arrear of Mr. Fordyce was occasioned by the successive failures of three different agents employed by him for the purpose of paying into the exchequer the taxes remitted from Scotland, and not from any diversion or misapplication of the public money by the receiver; the debt therefore becomesdivisible into 3 parts; viz. The sum of 13,4151. 17s. gd. occasioned by the failure of Douglass and Cockburn, and due from their estate seized under an extent. The sum of 23,9441. 3s. 10d. occasioned by the failure of Fergusson and Murdock, and due from their estate seized under an extent; making 37,3601. 1s. 7d. In regard to which sums the proposals are, that the effects of those agents, having been taken by extent, should remain for liquidation in the hands of Trustees appointed by the treasury. Return to an Order of the House of Com- For the first of these sums, no security has mons, dated the 22d March last; for, an been given by Mr. Fordyce, the reason for Account of all Sums which have been paid which is, that Mr. Fordyce has never conin Discharge of the Debt of 90,4731. 18s. 6d. sidered himself responsible for it, for reastated, in the 8th Report of the Select Com-sons stated in his letter after mentioned. mittee of Finance, to be due from John Fordyce, Esq. late Receiver General of the Land and other Taxes in Scotland. PAPERS PRESENTED TO THE HOUSE OF COM- AND OTHER TAXES FOR SCOTLAND. Ordered to be printed 3d May, 1805. For the latter, there is the security on the estate at Grenada, mentioned in the same letter, which will be applicable to this pur proposal was, that the effects of the two agents of my late office, which had been seized upon extents, for the security of the balances which. I had remitted to them to be Second, The Obligation of the executors' or trustees of the estate of River Antoine, in Grenada, to pay not less than three-fourth parts of the value of the produce of that estate annually to the exchequer, until the re-paid to the exchequer, and which they had mainder of Mr. Fordyce's debt, now reduced retained contrary to my orders, should reto 14,3371. 6s. (exclusive of the said sum mai for liquidation is the hands of the of 29,5001.) shall be fully paid; and after trustees appointed by the treasury. That such payment, to remain as a collateral se- in order to ascertain, within a limited time, curity for the payment of such part of the the gradual and full payment out of my debt of 23,9441. 3s. 10d. due from the es- own property of the remainder of the debt tate of Fergusson and Murdock, as may then to be public, occasioned by the failure of be unsatisfied. The nature and effect of the my our agent for that office, in whose aflatter instrument, and the proceedings sub-fairs a commission of bankruptcy had presequent to the proposals, we are not ac- ceded and prevented the effect of the writ quainted with farther than by the letters re-¡ of extent which I had applied for, I should ceived from Messrs. Goodenough and White, give the following securities, amounting in trustees of the crown, and Mr. Fordyce, all to 52,087). 63. copies wherefore are annexed, No. 3 and 4. (Signed) W. Lowndes, B. Barne, E. Me-government, as one of the cordows, H. Hayes, H Hodgson.-Office for missioners of the land? revenue £8,250 taxes, 30th April, 1805. 24. The bonds of sur dry. gentlenen of undoubted fortone and responsibility, whose names were laid before the treasury, payable in 5, 6, and seven years, for No. I. Copy of Letter to Charles Long, Esq. dated 10th June, 1798.--Sir, In an swer to your enquiry as to the progress which I had made in carrying into efect the which I had made to the treasury, I have the satisfaction to be able to state to you, that a great part of what I proposed is already executed, and that the whole will be completed in the course of next week. My proposal which 1st. The sum due to me by Ar 32,500 00 3d. The obligation of the executors of the estate of River Antoine, in the island of Grenada, to pay the three-fourth |