really the essential spirit of the University. The opposite extreme was the attempt, which a good many had regarded as premature, to establish a number of separate Universities. It was perhaps hardly time for that. But he thought there was less disadvantage for the future of South Africa in the establishing of several weak Univer sities than in the absence of any genuine Universities at all. Professor Crawford had discussed that point, and as he (the speaker) was in agreement with him, he would not repeat the arguments.

But between these two extremes there came in what he thought would be the best possible line which evolution could take the grouping together of a few institutions, to support one another in the establishment of the necessary reputation. He had only been three months in South Africa, and he could not speak with authority or local conditions, but he could perhaps say one or two words regarding South Africa as it appeared to those outside, better than those who had lived here for a long time. And he felt bound to be somewhat emphatic upon this point-that it was necessary to establish a reputation in South Africa for University Education. Their existing institutions had not a very good reputation at the present time, and it seemed to him that the best hope for the future was to strengthen the hands of the few institutions which were trying to do real University work. There were two or three institutions which would hardly deserve to be called Universities. They required buildings and endowments, but, more than all, they required the best possible staff. Everything depended on the men who had the work to do. Such a movement would help to get good men, to get more money to pay them with, and to give them better positions by being professors in independent Universities. The institutions also required to take all the Faculties into consideration. On that point he entirely agreed with the representative of the Cape University. He would not admit any institution as being a University unless it had several faculties. represented.

It seemed to him that they might take the three or four institutions which satisfied those conditions, and although they might not be quite strong enough at present to become independent Universities, they would help one another, provided they were formed into a group sufficiently loose to enable them to develop their own indivi duality, for individuality was as necessary for a University as for a person. One of the greatest drawbacks of federation or affiliation on ordinary lines was that it compelled the various component parts to be alike. They did not want them to be that. He thought the requirements might be met by a scheme something like that put forward by Stellenbosch, but he would prefer that it should not be in connection with the existing University. The existing University had other duties. But it was essential to adequate development that the different Colleges should hold their own examinations, subject merely to criticism. If they had absolutely independent Universities. criticism failed. But they would be able to maintain a fairly level standard by appointing external examiners, and if there were several

Colleges grouped together they could criticise each other, each examination being conducted by a professor in conjunction with a specialist from one of the other institutions. That would tend to make matters fairly even between the different bodies. He would like to see a common degree at the present time-and it might be for a quarter of a century or so-a common degree granted on the strength of the work done at any one of the few institutions which shewed themselves capable. If these institutions attained anything like the standard of a University, they would get much more support. He submitted that the best way of evolving improvement out of the present situation was to leave the Cape University to do the useful work it was at present doing, but to grant a position of semi-independence to those institutions which were capable of being brought into the limited scheme of federation which he had suggested.

Mr. J. M. P. Muirhead (Cape Town) said he would like to offer a few remarks on the practical aspect of the question. It was all very fine for professors of different Colleges to meet and discuss how many Universities they were going to have in South Africa, but the main point was to prove to the people of South Africa that these institutions were necessary, and that the expenditure involved would be justified. It seemed to him that from the standpoint of the man in the street the facts and statistics before them at once did away with any hope of obtaining very much support from the public for more than one University at present. If the South African College and the Victoria College combined their students, there might be sufficient to justify the founding of a good teaching University, and the Transvaal, having made a good start, might also in time be entitled to a charter. But to suggest, with 800 students all told, that half a dozen Universities should be kept up, with all the dignity of buildings, chairs, endowments, etc., might commend itself to the academic mind, but in the present condition of the country was not likely to be approved by responsible legislators. They would, first of all, have to demonstrate the necessity for making a change. They had heard from Dr. Kolbe that it was not necessary to preserve the status quo. The Cape University was willing to go forward as far as lay in its power, and under these circumstances it seemed to him (the speaker) that they would have very great difficulty in persuading anyone outside that there were reasonable grounds for establishing further Universities in South Africa at the present moment. The general public, with past experience of American degrees before them, were not going to be very keen about multiplying degree-giving institutions.

It was also an axiom that they should strengthen what they had before seeking to add to the number. Surely in a country like South Africa it was infinitely better to have one good, strong University. And there was surely no reason why the Cape University, which at present was almost solely an examining body, should not in time become a teaching one. even if it swallowed up the South African College.

The voice of the ratepayer should be heard on this question. He was quite convinced that nothing had been said there that day, and no figures had been produced, which would justify the Legislature of Cape Colony in endowing a fresh University-at any rate, for the present.

Mr. J. Lyle (Bloemfontein) remarked that perhaps the best contribution which he could make to the discussion would be to say a few words as to the position which the Orange River Colony intended to take up in the matter. He asked Dr. Kolbe to take from the Orange River Colony to the University Council their thanks for the politeness and courtesy with which the Orange River Colony had always been treated. They had always found that the Council was willing to give them every consideration, and, in fact, had sometimes gone out of its way to consult them. The Council was always ready to act on any suggestions brought forward, although up to the present the Orange River Colony had not become a "contributing colony." They in the Orange River Colony had always discouraged the attempts of High Schools to become Colleges, and to profess to give University education. They had found it wise to concentrate all their energies on the Grey College, Bloemfontein. This institution was founded fifty years ago by Sir George Grey, with the purpose that it should be a University College. In the deed of gift this was stated most distinctly. It was intended for the training of teachers, ministers, and men who wished to enter the learned professions, although the intention had not been adhered to. A very striking thing was the almost pathetic love which the people in the Orange River Colony had for this College. It was only natural, therefore, that they should concentrate all their efforts on developing the possi bilities of this institution. He should like to support Dr. Kolbe in his statement that the Cape University had shewn not only the capacity, but a great desire to evolve along the lines making for efficiency, and for the maintenance of a proper standard of University education in this country. A few weeks ago the Orange River Colony, Transvaal, and Natal were represented at a meeting in Cape Town, at which he was present, and, when writing his report of that meeting, he actually put down that they met there the representatives of the Victoria College, the Rhodes University College, and the South African College, whereas he was told they had actually met a committee of the Cape University. Thus they would see that the University consulted the professors.

The Orange River Colony had now almost decided to become a contributing colony, and, if their negotiations were successful, would be represented on the Council. It seemed to him that the other Colonies should do the same. For a paltry sum of something like £200 per annum, a Colony could become a contributing Colony, and have three representatives on the Council. He would suggest that the policy pursued by the Orange River Colony should be adopted by the other Colonies. They admitted, of course. that the present system was not satisfactory, but they must not too hastily assume

that the only way of mending it was by ending it. The suggestions for mending the Cape University by ending it only accentuated the need for its existence. Do what they liked, and suggest what they liked, the question of the private student, the question of how to deal with the sparsely-populated districts of the country, would still trouble them. It would not do to set up a few Colleges and expect parents in remote localities to send their sons to those institutions. Their policy should be directed towards bringing University education within the reach of even the humblest person in South Africa. This, as the facts before them shewed, had been adequately done by the Cape University. The increase in the number of degrees shewn upon the chart before them was very striking. Nor had that been done by retarding the growth of any of the Colleges. The speaker concluded by reiterating that they in the Orange River Colony thought that the best interests of education in South Africa would be served, for the next twenty or thirty years, by a whole-hearted devotion on their part to the Cape University.

At

Professor Bohle (Cape Town) asked what provision was going to be made by the Cape University in regard to engineering. present, mining engineering was the only branch of the subject in which examinations were held. Engineering was, and would continue to be, one of the most important professions for which provision could be made in this country. With the exception of Mining, the Cape University had made no provision, and, so far as the mining classes were concerned, he did not think that the examinations held were at all satisfactory. They had, at the end of a complete course, an examination lasting three or four hours. That was not at all satisfactory. They could not examine an engineer in three or four hours. After a complete course, he should be able to write out a proper thesis on special work. So far as he was aware, they appointed for the mining examinations an outside examiner. The outside examiner was usually a specialist in some particular subject, and a specialist was not the proper person to test the general knowledge of the student. It was only a professor, and preferably a professor of some other College, who was able to examine a student properly. A specialist would content himself with putting questions in the subject with which he was best acquainted. Apart from this, he (the speaker) was anxious to know what the Cape University intended to do with regard to other branches of engineering. The South African College had started an engineering department, and he would like to hear from Dr. Kolbe what was the intention of the Cape University with regard to electrical, civil, and mechanical engineering.

Professor Wilkinson (Johannesburg) laid stress on the fact that a University was not merely a teaching institution, but embodied the spirit of research. He pointed out that if Professor Lehfeldt's idea of federating selected Colleges were carried out, they would have a teaching University side by side with the present examining body, and if it became a struggle for supremacy between these two, there

was not the slightest doubt as to which would emerge triumphant. What they wanted was not merely an examining body, but a teaching University, and one in which the staff would not be merely on the plane of ordinary schoolmasters, but would be able to devote a considerable proportion of their time to the advancement of research.

The Chairman asked if any other gentleman present wished to express his views. There being no response, the Chairman went on to say that he would like to make a few remarks himself.

His point of view would be the same as Mr. Muirhead's-that of the man who had to pay-or, rather, who had to solicit other people to find the money. South Africa had a population, roughly speaking, of a million white inhabitants, and about six million blacks. It could be taken as a fact that the average white inhabitant of South Africa received a larger income than the average inhabitant of England or Germany. Roughly speaking, a population of a million people in South Africa would about correspond, in feepaying capacity, to a population of two millions in Germany or England. Now, if they considered the number of Universities in those countries, they would find that a million inhabitants could support a University. It therefore seemed to him to be within the range of possibility that South Africa could support two Universities. That was the first point they needed to arrive at. Secondly, there was the question of the conditions under which their University was going to be constituted, and here it seemed to him to be of the highest importance that the personal staff should represent the highest possible standard, and should exemplify that attractive personal magnetism which made the student learn in spite of himself, and inspired him with that ardent desire for research, to stimulate which appeared to him to be the true function of a University.

He did not wish to trench upon the province of those who had devoted their lives to the furtherance of education, but his own personal feeling was that in carrying out any scheme for the creation of a University, the test of the work actually done should be of equal, if not of more importance, than the results of the examinations. With regard to the question of ways and means, he was afraid they would need many discussions such as had been held to-day before they would be in a position to carry their ideas into effect. The present discussion, however, would no doubt be helpful, in view of the conference which was to be held, approximately, within the next two months. He had been glad to observe that the discussion had proceeded on the broad plane of an amiable desire to find out what would be best in the interests of South Africa as a whole, and that the speakers had not merely set themselves to advance the interests of the particular institutions with which they happened to be connected.

Professor Lyster Jameson then replied on some of the points raised. He was afraid that in certain respects one or two of the speakers had not quite grasped his ideas. He pointed out that he