Mr. FIELD moved that the resolution lie onsibility of the chief financial officer of the State. the table and be printed.

therefore, that this inquiry will not any longer betion which is already at our hands, we shall so denied.

multiply the labors of the respective heads of the Mr. CHURCH-It seems to me, sir, that neither departments and bureaus as to withdraw them the Comptroller nor the Auditor of the Canal depart from their necessary daily duties. We can get a ment is the proper person to direct this resolution great deal of the information called for by a to, but that it should be directed to the Commis- little labor and a little inquiry on our own part. sioners of the Canal fund, who have charge of the And, there is, let me say, from some observafinances relating to the canals. At the head of tion, no greater abuse in legislative bodies or in that Commission is the Comptroller, and the conventions, than in the constant making of inAuditor of the Canal department is the Secretary quiries in regard to information which can be furof the Board. By directing it to the Commis-nished with very little labor on the part of legissioners of the Canal Fund, we shall have the lators or members of the convention themselves benefit of the experience and the knowledge of the Comptroller and also of the Auditor. I would suggest to the gentleman from Weschester [Mr. Greeley] if that is not the proper direction for such a resolution as this.

It was for this reason that I moved the second amendment, "provided that the information is not already prepared for the use of the Convention.'

Mr. ALVORD-I agree with the gentleman from Orleans, [Mr. Church] in regard to the facts Mr. E. BROOKS-My reason for offering the as to the custody of the finances of the canal deamendment, to which the gentleman from West-partment. They are under the law, and they are chester objects, was that it was, in my judgment, in fact in the hands of the Auditor. They make in conformity to law, and that the Legislature of no part or parcel of the business of the Compthis State had so acted in defining, the duties of troller or his office. The finances of the State the Canal Auditor and in so separating his bureau will be found in the Comptroller's office. If from that of the State Comptroller as to make it the resolution shall pass as proposed by the imperative upon him to furnish such information gentleman from Westchester, [Mr. Greeley,] as has as is called for by the pending resolution. Now, well been said by the gentleman from Richmond, sir, let me read from the law : [Mr. E. Brooks,] the Comptroller would have to "All the powers and duties of the Chief Clerk return the resolution back to this body stating of the canal department, and all the powers and that the information called for was not in his duties of the Comptroller in relation to the canals, bureau. Any information he might give he would except his powers and duties as Commissioner of have to take second hand from the Auditor in the the canal fund, are hereby transferred to, and end. It strikes me it is very proper that the vested in the said auditor; and the said auditor resolution should be directed to the financial offishall also be secretary of the Commissioners of cer of the Canal Department, who is the Auditor, the Canal fund." and by whom the accounts are kept. In regard

myself in manuscript form. I am aware of the fact that most of it, if not the entire of it, is to be laid on our desks in that manual. It is quite as well to get the information there as to go to the past reports of the Auditor. It strikes me also that it is eminently proper that this resolution, in the first place, should be directed to the proper officer and that we should then add a proviso that the information is to be furnished if it is not already contained in the forthcoming manual.

Now, Mr. President, here the law is complete to the remarks made by the gentleman from Richas to the duties of the Canal Auditor furnishing mond [Mr. E. Brooks], I wish to say that I believe such information as is called for by the resolution that all the information, even to the minutest of the gentleman from Westchester [Mr. Greeley], detail called for by the resolution of the gentleman and the various pending amendments. Every from Westchester, and by the amendment of the body knows from the practice of the office under gentleman from Ontario, [Mr. Lapham] and all its present regime, that any information sought further amendments offered by the gentleman of for in regard to the administration of the canals the Convention, is already prepared, and will of this State is sought for from the Canal Auditor; make a part of the manual which is to be laid and, I believe, the State Comptroller is as upon the desks of the members of this Convention. well convinced as I am that this is not I can speak advisedly so far as this, that a large a proper inquiry to make of him; and portion of that information in detail, I have seen if this resolution should be adopted by this body, he would either return it to the body making it, with a statement that it was no part of his duty to furnish such information or else hand it over immediately to the Canal Auditor, who is the proper officer to furnish it. The Canal Auditor is as much a state officer, though not elected by the people, as the State Comptroller himself, and he is the proper person to make the inquiry of. Now in regard to the other amendment I submit. I have proposed that this information shall be fur- Mr. CLINTON-It seems to be, Sir, that there nished, provided it is not already prepared by the is one rule we are in danger of losing sight of. State officers for the use of the Convention, and If that rule is to be observed, I am ignorant at if the gentleman from Westchester [Mr. Greeley] the present time as to whether I ought or ought will take the trouble to read and analyse the not to vote for this amendment. I understood financial report of the Auditor of the Canal Depart- the gentlemen from Orleans [Mr. Church,] to state ment, of the State of New York, of January 1st, that the information which this resolution asks 1867, and submitted to the Legislature, he will find for lies in the possession of the Auditor in three in detail the information which he requires by his different capacities, first, as Auditor of the Canal resolution. Now, Mr. President, upon another dpartment, second, as Secretary of the Commis subject. If we commence by making these various missioners of the Canal Fund, and third, as a inquiries from the State officers to furnish informa-Secretary of some other canal board. Now, then,

I believe it is not exactly conformable to the act calling this Convention for the furnishing of dignity of this State Convention ever to call a manual to the Convention. One part of that upon a subordinate for information. The inquiry manual has been already laid on our tables; the ought to be directed to the head of the department, second part has also been laid upon oul and this information is so distributed that I do not tables, and this second part embraces very see how properly the Canal Auditor can answer it, many statistics-" statistics," as stated on the until he has referred to his head-the Commission-volume itself, "of the Executive Department, the ers or board of which he is acting as Secretary. Secretary of the State and Comptroller's De Suppose, for instance, our Secretary should be partments." It says in addition, that "the recalled upon by a resolution of some outside board mainder of the volume will be furnished as soon or body for information. Would he give it? as possible, and when completed will be bound." Would he not be required by his duty first to in- The remaining volume will undoubtedly contain puire of this body whether it was information he all the information which is asked for by the recould properly give? Would he not first have to solution of the gentleman from Westchester [Mr. procure our permission? I think if this infor- Greeley], and amended by several other gentlemation is to be derived in this way, we ought not men, and until that volume is furnished, and until to apply to the Secretary of the board but to the we are able to see what the contents of that board itself. volume will be, and how far it will embrace these subjects it seems to me we are occuypying the time and attention of the Convention and multiplying the labors of the state officers unnecessarily, I would move therefore, if in order, that the consideration of this resolution be further postponed until Tuesday next.

Mr. E. BROOKS-I read one of the provisions of the law in making my previous remarks, and I will in a moment read another. In the first place let me say that the Canal Auditor is as much a state officer as the State Comptroller. He is appointed by the Governor of the State, or is nominated by the Governor and is confirmed by the Senate, and one of his powers and duties to which I did not refer is as follows:

"The accounts of receipts and payments on account of the canals and the canal fund and debt, heretofore kept by the Commissioner of the Canal Fund, shall on, and after the first day of October next be kept by said Auditor."

This information is in his precise custody and it is in the custody of no other member of the State Government

Mr. GREELEY—The Canal Auditor, either is or is not a subordinate of the chief financial officer of this State-the Comptroller-as I understand it. I am not decided whether he is or is not, but I know who is the chief financial officer, and I wish the inquiry to be directed to him. I regard the Canal Auditor law, all the way through, as one of exceedingly doubtful propriety. But no matter about that. I prefer to keep out of that controversy; but I will say I have no doubt that the Comptroller will furnish the information, and I hold him to be the proper officer to furnish it. I do not believe the Constitution ever intended that the most important part of the duties of the chief financial officer of the State should be taken away from him, by law, and conferred upon a subordinate. At all events, I shall insist on the adoption of the original resolution.

Mr. SPENCER-I observe that by the proceedings of the Constitutional Convention of 1846, a similar resolution of inquiry was directed to the Comptroller, and I presume that the information can be obtained from that officer now.

Mr. OPDYKE-I hope that the motion that has just been made will not prevail. I hope also that the amendment which is pending will not prevail. In common with the gentleman from Westchester [Mr. Greeley], I think the chief financial officer of the State, is the person to whom the Convention should look for information upon matters affecting the financial interests of the State. It seems that that was the course pursued by the Convention of 1846, which met to revise the Constitution of our State, and to my mind it is proper that we should go to the same source. The law, portions of which have been read by the gentleman from Richmond [Mr. E. Brooks], shows that the Legislature in their wisdom saw fit to go to other sources. It does not follow that we should adopt the same course. We are seeking information, and I entirely agree with the gentleman from Westchester [Mr. Greeley,] that we should get it from the financial head of the State. Now, a single word in support of the original resolution of the gentleman from Westchester [Mr. Greeley.] It has been said that we may expect this information

The PRESIDENT-The Chair will inform the gentleman from New York [Mr. Opdyke], that the question now pending is to postpone the consideration of the question until Tuesday; that motion does not involve the merits.

The question was then put on the motion of Mr. Silvester to postpone the consideration of the resolution of Mr. Greeley, and it was declared lost.

Mr. OPDYKE-The original resolution, Mr. President, was evidently drawn with great care, Mr. SILVESTER-Mr. President, I am as judgment and skill. I hold it to be of the highest much in favor as any gentleman in the Convention, importance. It calls for information which is and as desirous of obtaining all the information very extensive and very comprehensive, and possible with respect to the State canals-the ex- which is necessary for us if we desire to act wisely penses of operating them, and the expenses con- upon the subject of the canals. If the resolution nected with improving them. There seems, how-shall be adopted, and presented to the Compever, to be some difference of opinion as to which troller, and he is prepared to furnish us with the officer of the State is the proper person to whom information in the precise form called for, he has enquiries shall be addressed. In addition, as has been suggested by the gentleman from Onondaga [Mr. Alvord], the Legislature provided in the

only to say so, and we shall receive it. If he is not, then we desire that he should prepare it in that form and send it here, that we may have it

Mr. VERPLANCK-How is that to be settled? I should like to know who is to judge whether the book contains the information or not.

printed for the use of members. I think there things I think there things belonging to that fund and to recomshould be no serious objection to the resolution. mend from time to time to the Legislature, the The President announced the question before adoption of such measures as they may think the House to be on the amendment of Mr. Brooks, proper for the improvement of the fund, and to provided that said information is not already report to the Legislature at the opening of prepared by the Canal Department for the Con- every session thereof, the state of the fund. vention" The Canal fund is under the control and management of the Commissioners of that fund, and the accounts are now kept in the office of the Auditor of the Canal Department. Those accounts were Mr. HATCH—I suppose the Convention will formerly kept in the office of the Comptroller, but undoubtedly decide when the information comes the control and management, as I said before, are in. I desire to say that a good deal of importance in the hands of the Commissioners and they are has been attached to the fact that the Convention the responsible officers to call upon, as it seems to of 1846 called on the Comptroller for information me, for any information in relation to the fund; instead of the Auditor. If my recollection is and therefore I hope the amendment will be correct, there was no Auditor then in existence. adopted. There was no such department until 1848. Therefore, I deem it very important that the resolution should go to the Auditor who is really the financial officer of the department, and the only officer who can give the requisite information.

The question was then put on the amendment of Mr. Brooks, "providing that such information is not already prepared by the Canal Department for the information of the Convention," and it was declared adopted by the following vote, the ayes and nays being called for.

Ayes-Messrs. Alvord, Andrews, Archer, Axtell, Baker, Barker, Barto, Beadle, Beals, Beckwith, Bell, Bergen, Bickford, Bowen, E. Brooks, E. P. Brooks, W. C. Brown, Burrill, Case, Cassidy, Champlain, Cheritree, Chesebro, Clark, Clinton, Colahan, Comstock, Conger, Cooke, Daly, Develin, Eddy, Ely, Endress, Ferry, Field, Flagler, Fowler, Fuller, Garvin, Gerry, Graves, Hadley, Hale, Hammond, Hitchman, Houston, Jarvis, Kernan, Krum, Larremore, A. Lawrence, A. R. Lawrence, Livingston, Loew. Lowrey, Luddington, Mattice, McDonald, Merrill, Merwin, Monell, More, Murphy, Nelson, Paige, A. J. Parker, C. E. Parker, Potter, President, Rathbun, Kobertson, Rolfe, Roy, A. D. Russell, Schell, Schoonmaker, Schumaker, Seaver, Seymour, Silvester, Sheldon, Smith Strong, Tappen, M. I. Townsend, S. Townsend, Tucker, Van Cott, Veeder, Wakeman, Wickham-92.

Nays-Messrs. A. F. Allen, C. L. Allen, Church, Corbett, Curtis, Duganne, C. C. Dwight, T. W. Dwight, Francis, Greeley, Gross, Hardenburgh, Hatch, Hitch cock, Hutchins, Ketcham, Kinney, Lapham, M. H. Lawrence, Merritt, Miller, Morris, Opdyke, Pond, Prindle, Prosser, Reynolds, Root, Rumsey, L. W. Russell, Spencer, Stratton, Tilden, Van Campen, Verplanck, Wales-36.

Mr. GREELEY-I am perfectly willing to accept the amendment of the gentleman from Orleans [Mr. Church.]

Mr. HATCH-We are not inquiring about the canal fund, but we are inquiring about certain details and statistics about canals, their condition, debts, &c. That is the object of this inquiry, and it is a subject which is not in the hands of the Commissioners of the Canal Fund, and does not belong to any other department except that of the Canal Auditor.

Mr. TILDEN-I understood that the gentleman from Westchester [Mr. Greeley] has accepted the amendment.

The PRESIDENT-He was not the mover of the original amendment as the chair understands it. Mr. Church to the amendment of Mr. Brooks, to The question being put on the amendment of insert the words "Commissioners of the Canal Funds " in lieu of the word "Auditor," it was declared adopted.

Mr. GREELEY-I now accept the amendment of the gentleman from Orleans [Mr. Church] to insert the Commissioners of the Canal Fund in place of the Comptroller.

The question was then put on the resolution of Mr. Greeley as amended, and it was declared adopted.

Mr. CLARK offered the following resolution: Resolved, That the preamble of the Constitution be so amended as to read as follows: We, the Mr. CHURCH—I move to amend the amend- people of the State of New York, grateful ment by striking out the word "Auditor" and in- to Almighty God for our freedom, and humbly serting in lieu thereof, "the Commissioners of the acknowledging Him as the ultimate source of all Canal Fund." Practically it would make no par- authority and power in civil government, and ticular difference whether this resolution is that states and nations, no less than individuals, directed to the Auditor, the Comptroller, or the are responsible to Him, and subject to His moral Commissioners of the Canal Fund, as the Con- laws, in order to secure the blessings of liberty, vention would doubtless, get the required justice, and good government, to ourselves and information from either one of them. our posterity, do ordain and establish this ConstiBut since the question has been raised, I submit tution.

to the Convention that the only proper and legiti- Which was laid on the table and ordered to be mate source for this information, is the Commis- printed.

sioners of the Canal Fund. The Constitution re- Mr. McDONALD offered the following resocognizes the Board of Commissioners, consisting lution

of Lieutenant Governor, the Comptroller, the Resolved, That the Sergeant-at-Arms, of this Secretary of State, the State, the Attorney General Convention, be authorized to place on the files of and the Treasurer, as the Commis- each member, a printed copy or pamphlet form of

sioners of the Canal Fund, and they are the verbatim Report of the debates of this Concharged, by law, with the superintendence vention within two days after such debate or porand management of the canal fund, and it is made tion of debate shall have been had, and that the their duty to manage to the best advantage, all Sergeant-at-Arms be also authorized, within the

same time, to furnish and forward one such copy of debates, to each Editor (or if there be more than one Editor) then to the Editor-in-chief of every newspaper regularly issued and published within this State to subscribers in intervals of one week, or less. But in case the same person or persons shall be the Editor or Editors of more The appointment of William Gordon as one of than one such newspaper, then only one copy of the messengers of the Convention was revoked by such debate shall be furnished such editor or the President, on the ground that he is entirely

Mr. NELSON-I would like to have it appear Mr. E. BROOKS-moved that the resolution be laid on the table and printed. Which was carried. somewhere upon the journal that the oath of Mr. SHERMAN offered the following resolution: office was administered to me yesterday. Resolved, That the rules proposed by the Select might, perhaps, be of importance in drawing my Committee on that subject be printed, as reported pay, if not otherwise. to-day. There being no objection, the journal was cor

Mr. E. BROOKS-I move, with the consent of rected accordingly. the mover of this resolution, that there be inserted Mr. GREELEY-The journal does not show in the proper place, chap. 6,—the report which how the Convention adopted the amendment of has been submitted from the committee of sixteen, the gentleman from Orleans [Mr. Church]. That which will undoubtedly become a part of the rules amendment prevailed by striking out the amend of this body, or else let the printing be postponed until the report of this Committee is acted upon. Perhaps it is better to postpone it until the report can be acted upon. I move it be postponed. Mr. GREELEY—I hope not, Mr. Chairman; let us have something to act upon to-morrow. The question being then put upon the motion to postpone, it was declared to be lost.